rule query

Alan,

Match-Play is strange in the fact we have to 'claim' things during play. In your case your opponent who marked your ball is in breach of Rule 20-1. Because you continued and lost the Match you have no claim. All I would do is inform the Committee of the happenings and let them decide, but don't hold your breath to be re-instated.

TheLyth

Alan,

Two Decisions that show the difference between Match-Play and Stroke-Play.

20-1/3  Ball Marked and Lifted by Opponent Without Player's Authority; Player Lifts Ball-Marker, Claims Hole and
Opponent Disputes Claim

Q. In a match, B marks the position of A's ball and lifts it without A's authority. B holes out. A picks up the ball-marker with which B had marked the position of his (A's) ball and claims the hole. B disputes the claim. What is the ruling?

A. B incurs a penalty stroke — Rule 18-3b — for lifting A's ball without authority. A incurs a penalty stroke for lifting the ball-marker (Rule 20-1). A must replace his ball and hole out; otherwise, A loses the hole.

20-1/4  Competitor's Ball Lifted Without Authority by Fellow-Competitor

Q. In stroke play, a fellow-competitor lifts a competitor's ball on the putting green without the authority of the competitor. Such action is contrary to Rule 20-1. What is the ruling?

A. There is no penalty and the ball must be replaced —

TheLyth

either way it looks doomed as we didn't stand and argue for a couple of hours or until it went dark as neither side new the rules, thanks for the responce, i'll make a mental note for next time.

A technicality at best, if they had not picked the ball up and marked for you would the result have changed. No.

I accept they have breached the rules but was the breach material to the end result?  No.

Why were they 50 yards ahead of you in a match? 

Not a technicality - a rule of golf. I, too, would be suspicious of such an action when the opponents had shot ahead by 50 yards. I would never mark another player's ball without asking or receiving a request to do so. It's not a case of "rules is rules".

they were 50 yds a head on all par 4 & 5's and on the 3's they were in a rush, would it have changed the out come? if the ball was twice as close as they said it was then probably yes

Ah thats a different matter, that would be cheating rather than a disregard for the rules whether conscious or otherwise! I think a couple of well placed shots (at them) when 50 yards ahead would have put an end to that.

that's the thing, cheating or not we had no way to check the rule and stupidly took their word for it, that said, what would have happened if we refused to accept their word and they were adament that they were right?

Alan,

You tell them that you are unhappy and want a Ruling from the Committee. Then the final result is not 'Final' because you made a "Timley Claim".

The question relevent here is.  Whose ball was 'away' or whose putt was it first. They have some control of the other balls in Match-Play, though you can 'mark' your ball if you think it will help them.

In your case, one of the guys breached Rule 20-1 andor Rule 18-3b and is penalised one shot.

A read of Rule 2-5 and Rule 34-1 will help you in the future, and there is no problem in getting a Rule Book out and reading a Rule during play. That can't be concidered 'undue delay',

TheLyth

David, you say "In your case, one of the guys breached Rule 20-1 andor Rule 18-3b and is penalised one shot."

this was better ball matchplay, is the penalty the same? but even if it was 1 shot we would have won 2 & 1

Alan,

Up until recently, nearly all Match-Play penalties were 'loss of hole'. A few became 'strokes' because it was unfair if player A had played 7 and player B 3, when B then breached a Rule.

In Fourball Match-Play some breaches cost one player and others cost the 'side' (both). In your case the player who 'lifted' your ball was in breach of Rule 20-1 (the authorisation) he can also be penalised under Rule 18-3a (the actual moving of your ball), in both cases it is a one shot penalty.

TheLyth

thanks for the clarity

Alan, It  Does seem strange for an opponant to mark ones ball unless it seems like waiting a long time for the correct pairing to do so.

Anyway if you were 1 up after 16,then halfed.1 up after 17 then lost 18.This would be a halfed match.or do you play countback?

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

There's no such thing as countback in matchplay. The competition rules would almost certainly be sudden death extra holes.

it happened on 17th, so with us 1 up on the 16th the win on 17 would have given us the match

but you are 1-up after 16.  You then halve 17, which means you are still 1-up. Losing 18 will just put the match to A/S, and taking it to a 19th hole....

sorry, this happened on 17, we then halved 18 to lose