Should the R&A tweak the rules of golf

What with the number of golfers being punished over the last few months, is it now time for the governing bodies to review and tweak the rules.

Ian Poulter seems to think so, i tend to agree with him, it will be interesting to find out how other golfers on this forum feel especially the traditionalist.

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/Golf/News/searchresults/December-10/Poulter-wants-golf-rule-change/ 

I'm afraid different peple have different ideas and it's rare for some people entrenched in their views to change them. I can respect that but I don't particularly want to play with them.  As a junior I was incorrectly told I'd caused an infringement by picking the ball out of the hole before taking the pin out (ball was not resting against, was in bottom of hole but I didn't know the rule so accepted  that my eagle turned into a par, I didn't know the rules and ever since have not held these people in high regard). This is one reason why I do not like playing in club competitions. I cannot be doing with the pedantic rulesmen that spend more time reading their rule books rather than playing.

 Yes, get rid of as many rules as possible and the non golfing community may stop laughing at us.

 I think people who want to maintain the staus quo always use the 'where do you draw the line'  stance.

Colin 

A ball that is only 10mm out of bounds or in 10 mm in a hazard.

a ball that is 10mm in a bunker

a ball that is only 10mm in front of the tee markers

a ball that is only standing in 10mm of casual water.       

I dont get your point, if you go out of bounds its 3 of the tee, if you go in a bunker its a hazard and part of the course, nothing to do with the kind of rules I'm talking about.

Accidentally dropping your ball on your marker [ poulter ] and a ball moving 6mm then rolling back 4mm [ paddy ] for me is very harsh to be penalised, just like the rule where if you ground your putter and a gust of wind moves your ball  2mm its a penalty, the R&A are reviewing some of the rules which tells me even they are having 2nd thoughts.

 Yeah, and onother one whilst I'm thinking about it is the 'lost ' ball, only to find it 30 yds further on but before you found it you played a provisional. I played in a society match once when this happened to me and thought it was harsh I wasn't able to play  it (especially when the marker post from the tee led you straight into the rough.

Colin

I am not talking about changing the rules just tweaking one or two, as for golfers deliberately dropping the ball onto his marker, i dont think that would happen as we all know golf is the cleanest and most honest sport there is, i still think there are one or two harsh rules that need to be looked at, if i was in a competition needing to putt a 2 footer on the last to win and i had grounded my putter,then a gust of wind moved my ball a couple of millimetres giving me a penalty, which then cost me that competition it would leave a sour taste in my mouth, as it would not of been something i did wrong but an act of god..

Colin, that is exactly my point: having to learn all the rules and every nuance that goes with them so you're not shafted by a rulesman who doesn't know the rules himself (as per my picking out of the hole incident) or if I'm being cynical, uses his opponents lack of rules to his advantage, and no doubt being creative with the rules to boot. I'm sure we've all come across these people. Don't talk to me about integrity,  fair play and self regulation, there are people that use rules to their advantage and I for one would be the first to line them up against the wall. Let me give you a recent example: we were playing in CGL game at Grassmoor last summer and a couple of us CGL lada were paired with Grassmoor lads, playing off the whites. We CGL lads were unaware that we were playing off the yellow teeon the third (we followed on from the fourball in front of us who had chosen the wrong tee). The Grassmoor bloke let us tee off before telling us we had incurred a penalty. What's worse he pretended that he 'just noticed' (which was complete horeshit as the white tee was a good 70 yds away from the yellow tee and we were having to wait 5 mins before we were clear to go). Now what's all that about? Where's the integrity and fair play there? I can't understand why people would be like that and their motivation for doing it. I can't believe it's to do with winning a relatively inexpensive trophy and if it is they can shove it. I have a feeling it's a bit more sinister and related to the person themselves (are football referees people who can't play? or just control freaks.... makes you wonder).

 I say simplify the rules, if only to get rid of the rulesmen in this game (with a bit of luck they might bugger off elsewhere to another sport with a big rule book. and we might get more people, whatever their level, who are genuinely interested in hitting a ball.

 The R & A should realise there's no bloody Empire anymore.

To play within the Rules of Golf is simple, it's even on the back of The Rule Book.

"Play the ball as it lies.  Play the course as you find it.  And if you can't do either, do what is fair.

But to do what is fair, you need to know the Rules of Golf.

It says 'Rules of Golf', not 'The Decisions on The Rules of Golf'.  There is a big difference.

If you carry the little book at all times, you can refer to it. It's simple to use. Think what is my situation? What item does it involve? Look in the index.

Take Patricks case. He is unsure, look up 'Teeing Ground' in the index. Finding WRONG TEEING GROUND (Rule 11-5) on page 68. Go to that page and you will find the correct proceedure. It will only take slightly longer than it took to read this.

There are only a few people who know every Rule in every situation, they use the Rule Book and The Decisions as Reference Books. But as Patrick pointed out, there are a few who think they do.

TheLyth

"Play the ball as it lies.  Play the course as you find it.  And if you can't do either, do what is fair.

I am not one for picking up a ball and cleaning it when on the green unless I am asked to mark it. I suppose this is just continuing what I have always done when playing this game.

In the days of stymies this would never have arisen, would it.

Christopher,

It is not the R&A's fault that a moron doesn't repair their 2" deep divot though.

There are a number of Rules that have been changed for the worse over the years.

'Unplayable' - Two stroke penalty, but drop clear of problem is one.

If, as in your situation, you could lay a club across a hole (any hole) and the ball was below the shaft, you got Free Relief on the fairway, was another.

TheLyth

Christopher,

Your ball hits a Sprinkler Head or Yardage Marker in the fairway and bounces at right angles into the rough, or hits a tree and lands in the fairway. How would you feel about your Rule then?

TheLyth

Colin, I'm afraid your comment that the referees decision is 'final' is another thing that will disappear shortly. Referees are not fit for purpose in the premier league as the game is simply too fast for them and their assistants. Everyweek there is an incident which is affecting the flow of the game and more importantlythe outcome of the game. Sooner rather than later video refereeing has got to take place as there is too much at stake, which is, whether we like it or not, money.

Colin

you say footballers try and cheat and con the ref all the time, however golfers dont yet get treated very harshly for something which may not be their fault, as i stated before in one of  my previous  posts we are not talking about changing laws but tweaking them, as some can be extremely unfair.

I think that the whole set of Rules of Golf should be revamped, from a Players prospective. Over the last ? number of years the Decisions have been added to for the Administration of the Rules and the Players have been left out.

Only a couple of Rules need tweaking, but many more Decisions need looking at, as well as a couple of Definitions.

Christopher Howard said :-

"i still think there are one or two harsh rules that need to be looked at, if i was in a competition needing to putt a 2 footer on the last to win and i had grounded my putter,then a gust of wind moved my ball a couple of millimetres giving me a penalty, which then cost me that competition it would leave a sour taste in my mouth, as it would not of been something i did wrong but an act of god.."

This is one of them. The Rule, (18-2b) states that a Player is deemed to have caused the ball move after address. The Definition of Address states  "taken stance and grounded the club" yet WHERE that grounding takes place is not there. If it was 'behind the ball' then a player being deemed to cause the ball to move is acceptable, but if you put the clubhean on the ground 2ft away, many Rules Guru's say that you have grounded it. This position isn't acceptable to be deemed as causing the ball to move by most. The Rule doesn't need changing, either the Definition or the Decisions do.

TheLyth

"I've only this week started watching the Golf on TV again, been waiting for the season to start properly and with Tiger's return to Torrey Pines felt the time was right to sit down at night with Sky Sports and watch some thrilling Golf."

T44th, yep it sure was thrilling

 

Dave

This is one of them. The Rule, (18-2b) states that a Player is deemed to have caused the ball move after address. The Definition of Address states  "taken stance and grounded the club" yet WHERE that grounding takes place is not there. If it was 'behind the ball' then a player being deemed to cause the ball to move is acceptable, but if you put the clubhean on the ground 2ft away, many Rules Guru's say that you have grounded it. This position isn't acceptable to be deemed as causing the ball to move by most. The Rule doesn't need changing, either the Definition or the Decisions do.

 

This is what I'm saying, there are a number of rules that need to be looked at not necessarily to change but to tweak,although i tend to agree with chris Watmore that hitting a beautiful drive straight down the middle of the fairway only to find you have landed in a divot can be very annoying.

Sanders

I think you need to stay off the sherry.

Colin

Perhaps you haven't played too many links courses, if you had you would know that a gust of wind is something that happens all of a sudden, it can be 15 miles per hour one second then gust to 30 the next second, so even the fastest putter in the world may struggle from time to time.

As for the rules of golf standing the test of time through out the years, maybe but the game of golf has evolved massively from when the rules were first formed, and its not unusual for the ruling bodies to invent new ones from time to time like what golf equipment can and cannot be used, so if they did tweak one or two would that really be a bad thing, as whatever the rules are we all play by them.

Colin,

I ask you the question "what is grounding during address?"

You come across a guy like Patrick did, wouldn't it be good to be able to get out your little book and prove him wrong! You can't. That is what needs changing.

TheLyth

I think I already now the answer to this but it keeps coming up during games.

Q. My ball is not in a hazard but I am standing in a hazard, can I ground my club outside of the hazard?

A. Yes (this is my thinking?)

The answer to that one is NO, you can't ground your club in any hazard but I want to know can you ground you club outside of a hazard if you are standing in it.

For example if you are standing in a bunker but your ball is on the fairway can you ground your club behind the ball?

Thanks for that Colin, I wasn't aware of that.

John - My ball is not in a hazard but I am standing in a hazard, can I ground my club outside of the hazard?  

Yes

Decision 13-4/1. A player may even ground their club in the bunker providing their ball lies outside the bunker

 

via @barryrhodes999q on Twitter

OK,

Here's a twist on that.

Let's say you have done that, you've taken a couple of practice swings in a bunker & your ball is outside of the bunker. You then proceed to take your shot, hit a tree & the ball lands in the bunker you were just in. Is there any rule infringement taking that you've just been testing the surface etc??

John,

Rule 13-4 states "before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard" gives you the OK.

TheLyth

David,

The exceptions that I've just read are;

 

Exceptions:  1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or (b) places his clubs in a hazard.    I see nothing there that allows you to make practice swings in the hazard or am I interpreting wrongly?

JohnF,

The ball has to be in the hazard too to constitute "testing". Do you remember the Cink incident from a few years ago that got the Rule changed?

TheLyth

See what I mean? Look at all this talk for something so trivial. I would read it that if the ball isn't in the hazard you ground your club (chances are you'll have an awkward stance and balls it up anyway) but the last thing you need is someone putting their twopenneth in. Tedious or what?

Could shifting your feet about in a bunker to gain a solid stance be deemed as testing the condition of the sand before taking your shot or is this an exception. You can get a decent feel as to the density of the sand while walking in it to your ball and I should imagine you could 'feel' how deep the sand is if you wiggled your feet side to side to gain a solid stance.