a darts player..a *****ing darts player

came above Lee Westwood and Gmac in the BBC spotrts personality of the year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe I'll emigrate

Can argue with a darts player.....lets face it he has been at the top if his game for nearly 20 years, 15 times world champ takes some serious dedication.

I was more gutted about the jockey guy winning.....but then I don't know horse racing.........

I still can't believe Monty really got coach of the year.  Who did he coach  he didn't event pick the majority of the team and it was one event over 3 (4) days.

Hang on a minute that's a little bit harsh, As said before Phil has won 15 world titles is more dominant than Tiger could ever dream of being.

I don't think Westwood stood a chance to be fair never won anything of great note and his climb to number 1 is very recent and many feel may only be short lived. G-Mac was the more likely because of the iconic Ryder Cup images and a major win but unfortunatly for the golfers this year they came up against a jockey and a darts player who have been at the top of their proffessions for decades now and have had many a campaign launched to get them in the running. It was inevitable one of those 2 was going to win it.

On the Monty thing I think that was purley a choice made to try and throw the Ryder cup boys a bone, I think the BBC knew that the golfers would win nothing but gave Monty the trophy to stop the backlash from golf fans. Holloway was a much more deserving winner in my opinion

Gary think you are spot on with the top 2 plus the golf vote would have know doubt been split with 2 golfers in the top 10.

Holloway would have been a interesting winner, still think Pete Cowen should have been up there being coach to many of the top players.

Finally I know they all already have commitments but a shame only 3 Ryder Cup players turned up.

Phil Taylor making the top three is not too strange when you see that Darts is on Sky TV at the moment (World Championship) and neither G-Mac or Westwood were playing in South Africa.

I like the old voting system better. Opening phone lines for almost two hours doesn't reach everyone, thousands of would be voters may well have been stuck in snow somewhere.

It may be a consolation for G-Mac, but he has got a number of awards from the people who watch Golf.

TheLyth

I thought it was Sports Personality of the year, not how many times you have won?

That jockey had about as much personailty as my sledge.

Fix.

Gary,

"..and many feel may only be short lived."

Not sure I agree with you there?

Seems politics is getting into everything (it's the only possible explanation). Darts and horse racing? Whatever next, wrestling?

Dermot,

Dedication & professionalism I agree with but personality.......pleeeeesseee.

Did you not hear his acceptance speech??

Perhaps it's because I think horse racing is one of the most boring sports on this planet but then again I'm an idiot so what do I know http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/devil_smile.gif" title="devil" />

5ft 9" thats just showing off!

I've no problem with a Jockey winning it. I'm not into horse racing of any kind but he's won the best jockey for 15 years running.

Takes some doing to be on top of your game like that.

Phil Taylor deserves to win it as well. He's the same, won everything and dominated his sport for years.

The problem we had this year with Lee Westwood and GMac was the split in the votes. It would have been much better to only have one of them in there.

Listening to the radio last night it appears that the BBC eliminate anyone when there appears to be an attempt to get people to vote for one person.

It was mentioned that the Angling Times had suggested that everyone in the angling world voted for John Wilson, and he was promptly eliminated from the vote!

So if this is true what happened last year when Ryan Giggs won it. This year there was a campaign to get the jockey voted in, so have the rules changed?

Not too sure about the Monty award, he didn't really coach anybody, just picked what position the players would play in. The team won so he gets the award, who would have got it if they had lost?

Russ

Physical exertion or not, darts is a highly skillful game on a par with the skill required for golf and Phil Taylor has shown himself to be heads and shoulders above the rest over a very long period of time and thoroughly deserved his second place in my opinion.

agree completely with JP

regarding what is a "sport" probably impossible to define - I was

about to say any competition requiring a level of skill - but representing

a Quiz team would then also be a "sport"  as would a game of 'chess'

anybody else like to try to define ?????

Sorry, Phil, I disagree with you on this. I managed to play golf to a pretty high standard but I doubt I would have been able to play darts to a comparable standard.

All sports have differing degrees of difficuly in one way or another and one thing I have learned throughout my life is that to be good at anything requires  a determination and dedication that is usually to much for most people to put up with.

Where do we start ? Someone said the other day that its not a sport unless you change your shoes!

All the nominees in their own right deserved to be there and have indeed achieved sucess. Not to belittle APS achievements in any way but the better jockey you are the better horses you get to ride and more of them. I am glad the worksop wizard didnt win this year, It will be a lot sweeter to win it coupled with a major or two and world no1.

 As for sports personality of the year, should it not be "sporting achievement of the last 10-15 years".

At the end of the day it gets dark and it is very difficult to compare "sports" with a longevity to the partaker like golf & darts, to sports like olympic games where you may only compete in 1 race in your life. 

Well done Mccoy, Taylor and Enniss.

Dave CAC handed Geordie. 

Without wishing to denigrate anyone's achievements...

The dictinary defines Sport as:

"an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."

Can't see in that respect how Darts, which I dislike,  or even something like Snooker, which I love but am as skilful in as my Golf (i.e. c**p) can be classed as a Sport.

I think I agree with David P. and John F.'s sentiments in that whilst Racing and Darts et all require a degree of Professionlisim and Dedication (as does many activities) that does not equate to Personality and by that measure either AP should not have won (I thought I was boring) or the programme should be renamed to something like 'Favourite Sports Person of The Year' in which case I could well understand AP winning.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who couldn't understand Monty winning - I had just put this down to my inexperience in Golf and the fact that, for some unexplained reason, I took a disklike to the guy from the first time I came across him (I'm sure he's a very nice guy if you get to know him!!).

There is an event called the Olympic Games in which there are events that do not fit your criteria Dave S. All the shooting events, as well as archery spring to mind. If one has to get puffed out to qualify as a sport, then that is a pretty sad criteria for pastimes which require skill.

All games and Sports require dedication to become good at them.

SPORT is a pastime that you can compete against others.

OR

"If it is shown on Sky Sports, it must be a Sport"

Also Horse Racing is "The Sport of Kings".

I am lucky to have good 'hand & eye co-ordination' so also played Darts and Ten-Pin Bowling to a decent standard. In this weather we would have played a lot of Darts and Snooker in the Clubhouse.

TheLyth

Don't know what all the fuss is about, S P O T Y is a joke award anyway. Stopped watching it years ago,couldn't work out if the best sportsman/woman wins it or the BBCs favourite person at the time. I mean didn't princess Anns daughter win it one year for some horsey event.{i rest my case}.http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_down.gif" title="no" width="20" />...!!!

Phil,

You have chosen to ignore the events in the Olympics which require little to no fitness or strength, shooting, archery etc, surely there is more skill required in events such as this than there is in others such as track events or rowing where by 90% of the outcome is down to physical ability.

The same can be said for Darts when making comparisons to other Sports up for awards at SPOTY.

As i said before I'm not realy bothered who wins BBC  S P O T Y  as it is a mickey mouse award. However anyone who finnishes top of their sport 15 years running like Mcoy + Taylor deserve all the credit they get and i raise my glass to them both,..!!!

                    
                    
                    
                    
               .    ps  i only drink pepsi I'm on yhe wagon

The argument about the shape of darts players is a bit silly really though don't you think, I remember a odly shaped guy by the name of John Daly winning the odd tournament, Kenny Perry is not really the poster boy for Mens Health and he should have won the masters not so long ago. Also the recent images of the fine specimen that is graham Mcdowell with his top off following the Ryder Cup and no one can argue Westwood has had his problems with his weight in the past.

Are we now saying golf is not a sport because fat blokes play it?

Also you don't have to ba pentathlete to win a gold medal for shooting or archery or riding a horse so as JP says are these not sports either? Surely someone should inform the olympic comity before 2012.

John F,

I don't think we need to get into the who's better than who argument again I think the last thread went on long enough about that. My point on this was not my opinion or the golfers thought, it was my thought on what the general opinion of the voting public would be.

The wider public who generally know not alot about golf all know who Tiger Woods is, all know the well documented troubles he has had and probably all figure he will be back. My Mum, Dad sister and brother in law all have an idea who G-Mac is because he has actually won something and was the face of thr Ryder Cup following the win. Compare that with Westwood who only my brother in law knew who he was suggest he never really stood a chance.

I'm not saying he isn't deserving of his nomination or did not deserve a recognition. All I was trying to say is that he never stood a chance in the voting. People see Tiger as the number 1  golfer in the world as he is a modern sporting icon, people who do not follow golf won't see him as anything else untill someone has come and sustained the position as world number 1 and knocked him off his pedastle.

The Olympic Games are a bit of a joke really, I mean they have Archery as a regular event, but Squash cannot get in!

They also have Taekwondo but not Karate. The reason being that a member of the Taekwondo management is also on the Olympic Board!

I would count Darts and Snooker as sports.

There is no way anybody could come up with a definition of what makes something a sport or not. It's just to hard to pin it down to a certain number of things.

I don't vote on these types of shows, never have done, never will do, so it doesn't matter to me who wins.

Russ

Gary,

you said "I don't think Westwood stood a chance to be fair never won anything of great note and his climb to number 1 is very recent and many feel may only be short lived"

Is this the thoughts of you, your Mum, Dad sister and brother in law or are you speaking on behalf of the wider public as well?

I don't disagree with anything else you said but I don't agree with the above statement. I think Lee will be No.1 for a long time.

You got that tenner ready

Phil, what on earth has shape and size got to do with it, have you not seen the wrestling events or Sumo, for example,

Well, Phil, to me it is a sport, because it is played competitively to a very high standard, which is recognised throughout the world. One on one competition with nowhere to hide, unlike one of my favourite sports - F1, where the result is quite often manipulated.

John F,

I hope you do win the tenner, if you do it will only come out of my winning anyway as I allways have Westwood for an each way on the Majors. He's almost a sure thing for a top 5 finish. Don't get me wrong I'm not Westwood bashing I think he is one of the best players England has produced in a very long time and his consistancy is outstanding, I just think he lacks a killer instinct to go out and win a major and truley be the world No1. There is nothing wrong with being one of the 5 best people in the world at something, i just don't believe he is tuely number 1 yet.

Phil,

i like to see a golfer who is fitter than a jockey, I boxed when I was younger and know all the hardship of a weight orientated sport. skipping in a sauna to lose a few pounds on an already stripped down body is not nice, and not what you would class as being healthy. Jockey's are racing week in week out and need great physical conditioning to control the hourse couple that with a constant battle against the scales, means there dedication is probably alot greater than anyother sport.

If a golfer has month off to take some time out he comes back a bit rusty, if a jockey does the same thing he comes back heavy and losses his ride.

A golfer who is fitter than a jockey, mmm let me think, what about John Daly...!!! 

sorry i thought you said fatter...!!!

Dermot,

I don't think for one instance that Poulter would delibratley shoot a bad round for attention. Golf is his living, if he doesn't make the cut or finish as high as he can then he suffers financially.

I agree sometimes tantrums are a bit childish but he's not on his own is he. The former World No.1 is also guilty of having strops on the course. It's not nice to watch but it's their personality. Just as in other sports there are always players who behave in a certain way that isn't good for the game.

Gary, I'm not going to go over the whole debate again about Westwood being No.1. If you don't think he is fair enough. 

As for golfers not being fitter than jockeys I'd probably say in this day & age more golfers are taking there fitness more serious than ever. Casey for example will go to the gym after a full round of golf, then the practice field & do this again the next day.

You guys should follow The no 1 player in the world on twitter then you will soon find he has personality.

Phil,

Fair enough on the jockey thing, I'm still on the side that Darts is a sport. For me any from of competative game where the output is based on any form of physical motion is a sport. For me darts is 95% about the throwing action and 5% about the maths. Chess is a game not a sport it is 99.9% about the thought process and 0.1% about movingthe piece with your hand.

Mind you I must admit being from Stoke, which is the epicentre of the darting world menas I may be just a little bit biased. I don't know big Phil well but I have spoke to him in local pubs/resteraunts a time or 2, I used to drink in his pub and his house overlooks the 7th and 8th hole on my golf course so I'm going to back him all the way 

I think tiddly winks is a sport as well. Just ask Poulter