How would you?

Following on from John Pettitt's post about CONGU Hcp's and the answers he got.

I always say "If you think an idea is stupid, come up with a better one" so I ask HOW WOULD YOU SET UP A BETTER HCP SYSTEM?

Here is a quick outline of the two main systems already in use.

UK System.  SSS is based on total length of a course plus slight adjustments for terrain and conditions. a CSS is worked out for each competition and Hcp's adjusted.

USGA System. A team visit a course and work out its 'Rating' and 'Slope' but again it is based on the length of a course and is a lot more complex than the UK version.

I will wait for some replies before I give my idea.

TheLyth

I dont think it should be based on the total length of a course, A course with 6 short par 5's would be easier than a slightly shorter course with no par 5's but with long par 4's yet this wouldn't be reflected in the sss.

I would probably start with par and then add on 1 for ever par 3 over 175 par 4 over 375 and par 5 over 550 yards

then take away 1 for every par 3 under 150 par 4 under 350 and par 5 under 500 yards.

the end result would be the sss.

How can the current UK system be fair when they include a system for CSS to be calculated for home and away players, surely this highlights a major flaw ?

I suppose this goes right back to Lyth's original question.  

How do golfers from the UK compete on a level playing field with European or US golfers who have a course adjusted handicap based on slope/course ratings etc ?  with CONGU you are stuck with one fixed handicap.

Adrian, Im being very pedantic but with your rules you could have a 6082 yd par 72 with an sss of 54. or a 6650 yd par 72 with an sss of 90. I can see your point but a drop or rise with your criteria of maybe 0.2 would be a bit fairer.

I would take the total yardage then divide by 185yds. Then add on 36 for putts. Next would be add on up to 4 for a tight tree lined course with quite a few hazards and OOB. Or take off up to 4 shots for an open course with not much water or bunkers around. IE a 7000 yd wentworth type course could be 7000 / 185 = 37.8 + 36 = 74 + 3= SSS 77. OR an open 6200 yds would be 6200 / 185 = 33.5 + 36 = 69.5 -3.5 = SSS66.

On the same note if any club secs are in the know, are the returned cards not continualy assesed so that SSS is adjusted and also SI is kept up to date?

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Thanks for your adding your thoughts lads.

Here is an idea if we took Par as a base to work out SSS.

Average each set of holes and take a table for any change.

PAR 3's,

Ave 151-199yds = no change. 

Ave 200-224yds = plus 1.  Ave 225yds+ = plus 2

Ave 126-150yds = minus 1.  Ave 101-125yds = minus 2

PAR 4's

Ave 351-399yds = no change.

Ave 400-424yds = plus 1.  Ave 425- 450yds = plus 2.  Ave 451-475yds = plus 3

Ave 326-350yds = minus 1.  Ave 301-325yds = minus 2.  Ave under 300yds = minus 3.

PAR 5's

Ave 501-549= no change.

Ave 550yds+ = plus 1

Ave 476-500yds = minus 1

I have put this against Horsforth GC here in Leeds. It is at present a 6258yd Par 71 (SSS 70).

Under this idea it becomes a Par 71 (SSS 71), not a big change. The Averages being, Par 3's (4) = 169.5yds, Par 4's (11) = 364.36yds & Par 5's (3) = 524yds.

Horsforth GC also shows some interesting figures if you take Adrians idea. Off the Whites its SSS becomes 71 not 70, but off the Yellows it drops to 66 from 68.

Keep posting your ideas.

TheLyth  

As discussed before I see no real problem with the exisiting system, but have had a look at some of the ideas on here to see if they do appear fairer.

My course is par 72 and the SSS ratings are.

yellow - 71

White - 73

Blue - 75

Under Aiden system the SSS ratings become

yellow - 73

White - 81

Blue - 88

I think this method may be a little flawed, eventhough some times it feels these would be more appropriate ratings.

The Lyth's system actually through up some strange results, increasing the easier ratings but decreasing the harder ones. Under the Lyths's system the SSS ratings would be

yellow - 72

White - 72

Blue - 74

There is near 500 yds difference between the whites and yellows at our club and the added difficulty is easily worth a couple of shots.

The blue tees are used for the major's only at our club and are 900yds different to the yellows so should be in my opinion at least 4 shots difference. The last major off the blues saw the winner win with a score of nett 74, +2 for the par and the second place with +3 and 3rd a +4.

I feel the SSS are pretty correct for our club as it stands but I do know when I play away courses it does appear to me some of there SSS ratings should be much lower than the par for handicapping purposes.

OK, its over a week since I posted this question so here is my view.

The SSS of a course is the only way I see that gives a fair start to working out a Hcp, Par alone can't be fair. Take two courses, both Par 72, one 6100yds one 7350yds. Two players regularly shoot 75's so equal ability? No! ones off 6hcp and the other Scratch.

The working out of CSS is not perfect and should bee looked at. Cat1 players Hcps should not be regulated by scores done by Cat3 players.

In a Golf Club there should be no limit to what Hcp a player can have but only when they reach 24 do they become 'Registered Golfers' and can enter Open Events. Until then they can only play in home Comps put on specially for them.

REGISTERED GOLFERS are golfers who holding an Official Hcp can have their information logged on a CONGU System like the one that as just started for all Golf Club Members whose Club use "HowDidIDo".

To answer Darrens question, there should be a way to inter-link all the different systems used all over the world or use only one uniform way.

TheLyth

Would be great Wayne the R&A refer to handicaps - A handicap allows players of all levels of golfing ability to compete against each other equally

Lyth so what are you thoughts on non club golfers don't feel any need to respond given it's hear on Golfshake

Darren,

Non Club Golfers would be treated the same way as the guys with a Club Hcp above 24. They can only play in Comps that are arranged for them.

But!

Once a system is set up, organisations like Golfshake can become Registered and its Hcp system recognised by the CONGU (or what ever) system. A person sits on a Clubs Hcp Committee and can give out an "Official Hcp" yet that same person gives a Hcp to a non Club Member and it isn't an "Official Hcp". Now where is the sense in that?

TheLyth