technique for consistently drawing the ball

right i have got myself to a decent enough standard now where i want to take my game to the next level with some shot shaping. ive no problem fading the ball or hitting it dead straight but ive been working on getting a nice draw and some days i can work it and other days not. i can get the face to close nicely just by small changes to my grip but i have a tendency to hook it way inside left if it goes wrong which is more often than not. i am assuming this is because im hitting the ball with a closed clubface on an out to in path. maybe its bacause the ball is too far forward and the club is naturally on its way back in on its arc. so i was thinking maybe ifi have the ball a bit back in my stance.

does anybody have any good set up tips about how to set up CONSISTENTLY for a draw so everything is always where it should be. then i could go and practice it more. at the minute it seems im getting differing results when i think im doing the same thing which obviously im not and im convinced its my setup more than anything else

Unless you have a swing path that is from the inside, then consistently hitting a draw will always be difficult.

There really are two basic ways to produce a draw and the one that is often recommended is to line up with the clubface pointing at the target, then closing the whole stance down by, usually dropping the right foot back a little. Swing normally and the ball should start right and then come back to the middle towards the end of the flight.

The other method is one that requires a great amount of feel and one that I have always used with my short irons and that is to ensure that the hands rotate through the ball from the inside. This is very easy for me as I play with an open clubface at the top of the swing, so to achieve this I am opening the clubface all the way to the top and closing it all the way down to impact, with it closing after impact, thus imparting the spin required to draw the ball softly.

This method also means that I am able to hit a draw from an open stance.

It would take me ten minutes on the range, Matt, for you to be doing it yourself. The principles of the golf swing are very basic and easily learned, but sticking to it is not so easy.

I play all my draw shots from an in side to out path with my club face open about 15 to 20* I always play with my club face facing my intended direction of ball flight and my body set up on my target line , equally i do the same for a fade, swing path out to in club face again open 15-20* to swing path. Thats not fanning the club open thats re gripping open.

The slight drawback to that method, Dave, is that if the follow through is not comnpleted then the ball will go straight right.

You do draw the ball very well. especially with your driver and long irons, none better in my opinion, but your method would not suit the average player, as he would not understand how he has to really work the hands throught the impact area.

The thing is John I don't use my hands through impact i just keep my left flat wrist  going down my swing path which is more outside my club face path to my target line. This is where the right to left spin is created not by my hands which will just roll over through extension. Ball position is of course very important ,

This should explain what I mean

This was me today hitting a 10yrd draw with an open faced 3 wood . The ball went of right and came back and landed on my target line ,the direction of my stance. I only wished he had stood driectly behind me while filming you just can't get the staff

Yes no DQ's today David

David, closed club face at impact you are going to go left and the more inside you come or hood the club then the hooks creep in, If you want the ball to start left then thats where the club face should be aiming the ball will always leave the club face in the direction it has been hit by the club face,what shapes the ball is the swing path in relation to club head,If you see in my video my ball takes off on the club face direction the swing path is more outside the line of the ball flight before swinging left.

So club face square at impact ball goes down taget line and then left '

clubface clsed at impact ball goes left then left again = hook.

I'm a guy who had suffered the hooks for a long time and is still my one bad shot.

And into out swing path is a must for a good draw,

Hope this helps.

Dave F, no matter what Dave L says he does, it is impossible to align clubface to direction of flight requirement without using ones hands in some way to bring it back to a position  that will produce a draw. You can tell him I said so.

John heres one I did today 18th Parc

1)Shoulders ,hips and feet square to target(flag)

2)Club face aiming at right hand bunker.

3) swing path bush right of bunker.

I grip the club openfaced to right of target ,at impact club face still open stop the film and see that  my right hand is still under left through impact and for about another 6-8" before rotating over, This was a 7 iron the flag was 177yrds away , ball took off on right bunker drew back and pitched 8ft infront of flag and spun about 6-7ft back and left. Of cause i missed the putt

David, if yourswing path is of a lesser degree than the open face it will slice if its on the same degree it will block/push if its greater it will draw. It's not the only way to draw as JP says it's just the way I choose. I can also fade and draw the ball with grip pressure and how i lean the shaft at address all this depends on how well i'm swinging.

I would concentrate on hitting with a square clubface with an in to out swing path for starters, and see what ball flight you get, Remember the ball flight never lies,good luck.

This is my good friend Billy, same hole but he is a fader. Notice the slightly open clubface to a much wider swing path relative to face angle promoting left to right spin .Ball landed just left of target.

Your more than welcome David, glad it helped .Enjoy golf

Stuart, if you didn't, then it would go straight right. Forget Leyo, what he thinks he does and what he actually does is two completely different things, although he would never concede that.

An open clubface coming into the ball on an inside line would go straight right unless some form of closure is used.

I have yet to come across a player who has not cocked his wrists at the top of the backswing.

The said thinking from there, is that the cocked angle must be maintained for as long as possible before release.

The clubface must arrive back at the impact position square and it is logic to say that if the club has been kept open it must at some point be returned to square and then closed through the ball.

Everyone uses their hands, even if they think they don't, after all it is the hands that grip the club, direct the club and release the club into the impact position.

I will try and explain again....... The club face is open to target line but closed to swing path so in essense you are still hitting the ball with a closed club face to swing path,,,,,,,, I do not manipulate my hands through impact because when you do you will hook the ball as I have done.

If your target line is 0 and the club face is open 15 and your swing path is 30* then your club face is 15* closed to swing path = draw .  

 I don't rotate my hands through  the ball as they say the camera never lies.

You are still not convincing me, Dave, because your description does not make any sense at all to me.

"When we played at Clevedon one of my playing partners remarked on my driving that I set up with the face fractionally open and yet still hit it straight or with a slight draw. That sounds to me like what Dave L is describing, except I was definitely rotating my hands through the ball."

Stuart it's because your club face is closed to swing path as explained in the ball flight laws video.Your hands return to where they were at address club face slightly open and then rotate after impact if you roll you hands over coming into the ball you are asking for trouble.

You really are confusing me, Dave, perhaps I have gone senile.

Your hands return to where they were at address club face slightly open and then rotate after impact

This is the first sentence I have understood what you have said and one with which I almost agree. It is far better to arrive back square on an inside path and then rotate immediately after impact. You do and that is why you draw the ball well, but when you do not rotate then the ball finishes up on the practice range at Parc.

Its all in the ball flight laws video john ,

te first one club face open to swing path closed to target line watch the spin  left to right. = Fade

second closed to swing path open to target watch the pin right to left = draw

third club face cosed to swing path and target line ball goes left. = Hook

Ball goes were club face goes and spin takes over.

We may be getting somewhere , and your not senile

 If I swing from the inside path say at 30* and my club face is also 30* open I will hit the ball dead straight 30* Right,  for every 1* open above 30* on face angle the ball will slice 32* 33* 34* 35* will slice even more. 

I think I get it Dave.  What you're saying is that the face of the club is still closed at impact in relation to the swing plane, but not in relation to your body line as the swing plane is in-to-out.  If the face was closed in relation to your body line as well, you would hook rather than draw as the face would be too closed. 

Right?

Spot on.

This is why Hogan / Moe were so good they understood ball flight in relation to club face

Moe's swing path down the target line with a square club face = hit every ball straight.

Hogan really flat open club face swung in to square to low left  = ball flight straight tail off right.

That may well explain why I occaisionally pull hook it then as it tends to happen when I come at it a little flat and hence not as in-to-out as it should be.  This is often caused by me getting a bit "armsy" in the back swing or not rotating properly

It's a measure of the torture I go through that I thought that everybody knew the mechanics of how to shape the ball, it just seems obvious to me.  The torture is, of course that I find it hard enough to actually execute a normal swing without straying into the dizzy realms of fading deliberately.  However, armed with the advice above I hit the range earlier and gave the stance and swing plane thing a go.  Made not a jot of difference, unless you call going straight unusual for me - until I deliberately exaggerated rolling my wrists over and blow me down with a feather I got a draw for the first time ever.  Not controllable to any extent and only with a 7 iron, but a draw nonetheless. 

Tim if you were hitting the ball straight then your swing path and club face were square to target line at impact.

That'd be a first then.

I struggle to get any kind of draw.