back spin

ok watching guys on telly they always seam to spin the ball back when it lands on the green. how do you do this. Is it easy or should i just consontrate on getting to the greens at the moment?
Im having problems as i find the green and the ball ends up running of the other end.

Depends on the ball you use and also having the right type of grooves in the club. Combined with hitting the ball with a downward blow rather than sweeping it off the fairway.

I think thats right!

Also the setup of the greens.

Definately depends on the ball as John said.  I naturally seemed to get backspin with my old swing, so much so that using ProV's I quite often pulled it back off the front of the green where with DDH's they either roll on or just stop dead.  Stopped happening now I've changed swing.

I agree with you all ball does play an important part.  Definately realised this today I bought some balata balls and they were spinning more than my usual cheapo ones.  I was given a red nike mojo ball today by one of the greenkeeps who was clearing up the bunker on the on the first hole (dont worry im sure the owner wasnt there as I was the first one on the course this morning).  I used this on a few holes and it was very long and it spun like mad on the greens (and it wasnt my swing or owt as i have no idea how to play these types of shots).

Thats what im saying about the greens. Earlier in the winter, I managed to get over 8yds of backspin on one hole.

Backspin is not liked one bit by the pros and better amateur players as they have no idea where the ball is going to end up. All they want to do is stop it very quickly.

John

Are you sure John,not one bit?

Yes, I am sure.

John

All of them?

If I see a pro hit the back of the green, and it spins back to a foot from the pin. I like to think he wanted that to happen.

Could you please explain to me why, even with these advances in wedge technology, spin milled faces and grooves etc, why not one modern pro has been able to better Henry Cottons 65 at Royal St. Gerges in the thirties.

The pros of yesteryear were in a different class when it cam to shotmaking. Now it is all smash.

John

When it comes to Links courses, then yes hitting a ball with plenty of backspin is not always going to be a good thing. You need to get the balls running up to the hole.

Running the ball up to the hole when off the green is of course a good idea especially when playing the links, but all the links I have played, which is very many, I have found that they are all very sandy and will accept a well struck shot without any problems.

John

The first clip confirmed what I have said to be correct. They hate it.

The second clip is how they would wish it to happen 100% of the time, namely one hop after the pitch and a small back-up or prefereably a stop.

You have only confirmed my argument for me.

Or are you telling me that Phil intended to spin back off the green, after all, he knows better than most what the ninth at Augusta is like. So he played a bad shot.

John

David, with all due respect you do not know what you are talking about. If you have ever been down to Royal St. Georges you will see that, if anything the corse is much the way it ever was, with the exception of maybe a little lengthening here and there. With the modern crowds at the open we all know that the rough becomes non-existent as it is all trampled down.

John

Janes, I am not a mind reader and assumed that you posted the videos in an attempt to justify your position on this subject.

Yes, they do appear funny to us, but we also know how the player feels when it happens to them.

John

Then please accept my apology, James.

John

David, Royal St.Georges is probably the most difficult of the Open courses currently on the rota, but IMO there are other courses not on the rota which are more difficult, but never become famous because of where they are. After all, the Open is not only about the golf.

If the current record is 67 that makes Henry's 65 even more majestic, given the clubs available then and obviously using the smaller ball.

The course next door to Royal St. Georges(Princes Golf Club) also held the open in 1932 (Won by gene Sarazen).

I have played this course many times as it is a great test of golf and not so expensive as  the Royal.

I might add that I think it is about time that Royal Cinque Ports was put on the Open rota - another fine test of golf.

John

I expect you will have found out by now that Ben Curtis in 2003 won it with exactly the same score as Henry Cotton did in 1934 - (283).

70 years of technological advances have not dramatically improved the scoring.

I first met Henry and his wife at Penina, Portugal where he was the Pro at the course he designed and later on at Sotogrande (Now known as Valderama) together with Tony Jacklin who was a friend of mine from when I was a young man.

John

I am pleased that you have confirmed what I said, David.

John

No problem, David,

John

I think the age old argument of old sports stars matching upto modern, is a complicated one.

Would Pele make it today? Would Jackie Stewart win any Grand Prix? Would Bobby Jones win any majors? Would Fred Perry win wimbledon?.........................the list goes on. I personallythink they would. If you have the skills and the determination,then thats half the battle. As for matching up fitness and the like, then they were as fit as they needed to be in there day. If they played today, they would need to do what they could to get that edge.

David,

I agree that Pros dislike spin.

If they didn't want spin why do most of them use the new wedges that are designed to get more back spin (V, C & U grooves) & why do they moan when they are in the rough & can't get the spin.

These pros are very talented players & when needed they can produce a wide aray of shots including the one where minimal spin is generated.

I challenge anyone to find a quote from a tour player saying that they dislike backspin.

 John.

What I have said, if anyone has taken the time to read it, is that the Pros do not want yards and yards of backspin, all they are looking for is for the ball to check on landing and go nowhere.

The Youtube video of Mickelson on the ninth at Augusta fully supports what I have just said, or are you saying that is what he wanted to do.

John

All they want to do is stop it quickly, that is what they wish, but there is not a golfer alive that can dictate what amount of spin he is going to get.

Your sons second clip is what they want, ikn fact what we all want.

John

Oops,

I have should have said "I don't agree that pro's dislike spin".

 John P your quote of

"Pros do not want yards and yards of backspin, all they are looking for is for the ball to check on landing and go nowhere."

If that is the case why do so many of the pro's land the ball 2 or 3 feet behind the pin?? If the ball checked on landing & then went nowhere they have a few more lengthy birdie putts to deal with? 

As I said earlier these pro's are talented players & they can play a shot with a lot of spin & shots with almost no spin.

By the way what are you basing your below comments on, is this personal preference, hearsay or factual (if factual please let us know where from)

"Backspin is not liked one bit by the pros and better amateur players as they have no idea where the ball is going to end up. All they want to do is stop it very quickly."

John. 

Worth a read my friends....

http://www.worldgolf.com/wglibrary/articles/dolan7.html

Robbie,

A good argument made in the article although again no quotes from any professional or tour player to back it up.

I'm sure if Nike told Tiger that they had created a set of irons that produced little or no spin at all he'd turn them down. This is my opinion only.

John. 

Robbie, that article confirms what I have been saying all along and have know for a great number of years.

John

John P,

You keep making this BOLD statement but as yet you've provided no proof.

The article was written by a teaching professional who did win some professional tournements but none of them on the TOUR & they are his opinions only & cannot be used to represent the rest of the professionals.

Provide some sort of proof & I will happily east humble pie.

John. 

John F,

I am not asking you to accept what I say at all.

I just find it amusing that someone who can play the game to a reasonable level thinks, hand on heart, that the pros love spinning back off the gree into hazards.

A tournament is a tournament, no matter whether it is professional or amateur and has nothing to do with the ability to stop a ball.

John

Paul Daly, I am glad that you are now realising that the most consistent method is, as you now say and what I have been saying all along. All the pleyer requires out of any shot into the green is that it either stops immediately, usually due to a soft green, or checks on the second bounce on a firm green, as the backspin takes effect.

John

John P,

I do not believe that pros love spinning back off the greens & apart from US opens or other very difficult courses like Augusta you don't see it happen very often.

I was just amused that you made such a bold statement & when questioned a few times about it you were adament with your statement but again as yet there is nothing to back it up. If it's your personal opinion then just say that!?!?!?

If true what you are saying how come the pros are still doing it??

Why do they land the ball 2-3ft away from the pin??

Why are more & more club manufacturers making more wedges to create extra spin? 

Cheers. 

So you now accept what I say about the pros not wanting to spin back.

If you think they do then show me pro that can do it successfully everytime.

My experience of the modern day pro is that they have a system that is repeatable everytime, most lack the flair of the earlier pros and none come close to having the variety of shots in the bag as Seve did. When I used to play with my pro in Pro-Ams I knew that if I left him in a certain position on a hole that he would never get it near the hole as he was a one trick pony, excellent striker, but no flair or imagination.

Why do they land the ball 2- 3ft away from the pin. I would have thought that was the object of the shot in question. Of course when they have done this they do not want it spinning off the green, do they?

Manufacturers are always claiming something or other that is better than what was available before. It is called marketing for the gullible public. The driver contest springs to mind.

I am 70 years old with a lifetime in this game at the sharper end, unfortunately health has caught up with me and now I cannot play it how I would like.

John

John P,

Please read my post again... I said I agree that pros do not want to spin the ball OFF THE BACK OF THE GREEN , I did not agree that they don't want spin at all.

If they have landed the ball 2ft-3ft away from the pin, surely the objective their is to SPIN the ball back towards the pin!!?!?!?!?!?!

Did Seve spin the ball?? I think he did & that's my point entirely these pros have a variety of shots so they can play a shot with or without spin

You have avoided my question again, is your original statement based on fact or purely a personal one, if avoided again I'll presume it's the latter.

To attempt to shut you up as you are persisting in twisting everything I say, I am speaking from well over fifty years of playing golf to a very high standard myself and playing with many of the top touring professionals of my day being a member of the West Region PGA for sixteen years.

Everyone spins the ball it is to what degree that makes the difference. Please do not attempt to convince me that the pros know exactly what will happen on the green once the ball is struck. They don't but TV can make it look as though they do.

John

How am I twisting everything you say, I merely asked on what basis your VERY BOLD statement was made on??

I'm did not once try to convince you that pros know exactly what will happen once the ball hits the green I was simply pointing out the fact that they know if the shot will generate a lot of spin or a little bit of spin.

If you don't like the responses or questions asked of your posts you should think hard about what you are posting, if I was to post something saying "ALL pros dislike straight & long drives" I would expect someone to challenge me.

Experience, which obviously you lack.

John

Paul, although you agree with John P, he still won't like you because of your jeans. What you need to do, is buy some nice slacks,and smoke like a chimney. Then he'll love you.

I think the pro needs the spin. Wether he likes it or not might be debateable. He/She does need it though. If a pin was tucked tight behind a bunker, the percentage shot is to hit it a few feet past, try a generate back spin and hope it comes back close. When they go in the hole, thats called good luck, when they spin off the green, thats called bad luck.

I'd have to agree, we all hate bad luck. 

Wayne,

You took the words right out of my mouth & probably said what a lot of other people on these forums think.

There is no reasoning with John P as he has the 'always right' attitute.

How can people expect to take him seriously when he makes a pompous statement like he did & then do nothing to back it up except go on about his years of playing & name dropping.

John P, you have not shown me any proof to convinve me of your pathetic statement is anything other than pure speculation. If it is based on your numerous years of playing with pros etc then you must realise that we are now in the 20th century & the views of pros years ago will not be the same of pros in todays age.

I suggest you go outside & stand with your fag smoking friends.

John 

NO, Wayne, not pompous at all. I am pleased that I am now a 'Has Been', as it is far better than being a 'Never Wazzer'

Just a pity you do not have anything in your armoury to shoot me down. You will just have to learn to live with it.

John

Another lovey comes to floor in the shape of Joh Flood, why am I not surprised that I am being ganged up on by people who obviously know very little about this wonderful game.

A forum is to debate bot to act all lovey dovey with each other as familiarity breeds contempt.

How many of you can tell me what I am holding in my avatar.

John

Your ego?

John, John, John,

Why don't you shut us all up for good & back your statement up with facts??

Ganged up, your a bit old in the tooth for gangs aren't you, I think you mean the 'majority' of people think your talking crap. 

Does this look like were acting all lovey dovey??

As for what your holding why don't you try putting it where the sun don't shine or maybe you think that it does shine there????

Some had no idea and others had to do research, It is not even a competition with you lot.

John

John P are you like this in real life? If so, as mild mannered a guy that I am, I dont think I could stomach your company on the golf course.

Thats an old shot John, you look about 48 there.

Not a replica at all David, this is the the one that had not been seen in this country for 22 years in 1985 when we won it back at The Belfry, after that long period, under the captaincy of Tony Jacklin.

Tony started life as an assistant to Bill Shankland at Potters Bar, where I used to caddy for estra money. I used to play nine holes with youing Tony every evening and honours for the half crown went both ways. He went on to become a great Pro and I had my fair share of fortune as an amateur. We remained friends until we lost touch after he returned to the UK from Spain.

John

Not hard to work out was it Danny, that I was 48 at the time of the photograph.

To answer you other question, which seems to be bothering you, I am just as mild mannered as you are, but will not be treated as though I know nothing about the game.

I offered the game in the first place as I felt I could possibly offer you some help.

John

Im still up for a game. Im not rally too bothered about getting any help with my game. I like to meet new people. Judging from your website (googles a wonderful thing), you sound like a guy thats seen some stuff. I'd be more interested in some of your journeys, then how I could improve my chipping, although both would be a bonus.

I am pleased you are still up for a game, Danny, I never hold grudges, but like yourself and others, I will always stand my corner if I feel that I am right.

We have all seen some stuff in our lives, everyone goes in different directions, thats all.

John

Not so gullible as you, David.

Why on earth would you attempt to take the piss? is it because you failed miserably to put forward your point of view satisfactorily.

Surely putting myself forward to a game shows that I feel quite confidant in not being shot down.

I am quite sure you will like me on a golf course.

John

You'll have to make the next Golfshake Tournement John

I would have made Wokefield, as it is very near to me but I had another hospital appointment on that day, and they come first of course.

John

Can't beat them, so join them Eh! David. Sensible idea.

John

Oh know.............thats done it now. Let battle commence. I dont want to be keep you 2 apart on the 24th. I dont think the course could take the 2 zimmer frames going like a gooden.

You may well be right, David, but better to have played and lost than to never have played at all.

Personally I prefer a medal round as then the whole eighteen count, as it should, but I am not taking it that serious, so I am prepared to play whatever you wish and the loser pays for the beer.

John

That will be me then.

I'll be wearing denim Trouser, shirt and pants. I need all the advantage I can get.

Medal's good for me too. 

It would not be the first time that I have had to pay for the beers, David.

Medal rounds are full handicap, thought you would have known that.

Blue denims will not help you one bit, you will have to bring your 'A' game and have the ability to stand pressure.

Danny will probably beat the pair of us as I have said many times on this forum that I can no longer play the game.

John

Off of 13 is good golf still.

Not to me it isn't, Danny. I get so frustrated now with the way I play on occasions.

I don't hit the ball very far now of course which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the game. Thank goodness I can still putt.

In actual fact I have been given 15 at Sherfield Oaks, but will play off 13 for the match.

John

Now that you have asked I am prepared to tell you a little about myself.

I was scratch for four years, then they introduced a change in the SSS system and we all went up two shots, I managed to get back to one which I held for eight years,  needing one card one year to make it to scratch again. Did not make it unfortunately.

I played once for Essex against Suffolk, four times for Surrey and sixteen years for Somerset.

I have played in all of the major amateur tournaments at least once, yes even the English Open Amateur Strokeplay for the Brabazon Trophy. It is worth mentioning that to get an entry to these events usually means balloting at 1 handicap.

I have won a fair few 36 hole open Scratch events but you would have to go to the clubs concerned to see my name on the boards. e.g. The Grand Atlantic Trophy held at Western Super Mare. Won the scratch with 139 twice and the last time in 1979 with 137

I have won the City and County of Bristol Open Scratch foursomes with my partner Barry Reeves and also the Somerset County Scratch fousomes with Barry in 1972.

http://www.somersetgolfunion.co.uk/arch_scr4s.html

I have a lifetime in this game and could talk about it forever. I just wish that I had kept well enough to play well, as I was still off 6 handicap when I was 62 and a member of Sweetwoods Park, West Sussex. I still have my handicap certificate, so at least I can prove that.

 I notice that you were single figures just a short while ago so what has happened to you David?

Hope your curiosity is satisfied.

 John

No answer Eh!, your bluff has been called.

John

If you have something to say, then say it, don't beat about the bush. If you have a record in this game, then lets all here about it.

I have put up and you just won't shut up.

John

John P has been called pompous, opinionated old fashioned and so on ,but is certainly a man of vast experiance and his views can be accepted or discounted as the reader sees fit, however he certainly contributes to and extends a lively debate. keep up the good work John.

Thank you Brian, nice to have some support.

I have no intention in upsetting anyone on this forum, but I believe that a forum is only great if there are different points of view.

Perhaps I do not put my views across the way some would like, but they are still valid, nevertheless.

I am old fashioned, I admit, but my only aim in life now is to help as many other players become better players, as I have done this all my golfing life and I am better value than a Pro.

John

Blimey.  Just caught up with my reading on this thread and I'm exhausted! I don't dare say anything on the subject (though I think I have forgotten what it was) lest my words be returned with interest.

Jesus Christ,

It was only a few posts ago that John P said :

"A forum is to debate not to act all lovey dovey with each other as familiarity breeds contempt."

& yet 10 or so posts later he is doing the exact thing he critised people for. From reading this guys posts he loves the sound of his own keyboard

If you really want to tell people how good you are etc then start a new post with the title "I'm John Pettit & I'm ace!!!"

Goodnight 

Good job as well David as we'd all still be trawling through it now looking for something interesting in it!!!!

John Flood - are still on the way down or on the way up like me? Pity your mouth does not come out with something tangible instead of drivel.

David Marshall - you asked what was the lowest handicap I managed and maintained - I told you. In no way is that a life story, just a mere fraction.

Paul Daly - If they turn up to play in denims then they will not be allowed to play wearing them, at Silvermere, I can assure you.

Not really a contest is it?

John

That is all it was, David a mere paragraph, it would take many sheets of foolscap to give you a detailed resume of my golfing career.

You were attempting to put me down by assuming that I had no history, well you were proved wrong, live with it.

John

John P,

It's not my posts that people have been saying are;

• boring
• unfactual
• pathetic
• tedious

My handicap is coming down (slowly) although that's not my be all and end all, I play to have fun, socialise & keep active.

I have no doubt that you could give us many sheets of foolscap of your golfing career but I doubt whether anyone would want to read it or be slightly interested in it.....except you.

If you make a sweeping action towards your right shoulder you might remove the big chip that is currently there.

John. 

John Flood, All words that describe yourself you pathetic individual.

David Marshall - Whether you asked for it or not I think you now know that I have been a very good player and therefore will know what I am talking about when it comes to this wonderful game.

I will not be treated dismissively by any of you, so you had better get used to it.

Why wait till August I can play anytime.

John

John P,

Is that your personal opinion or based on fact??

Even the way you say " Whether you asked for it or not I think you now know that I have been a very good player " just goes to prove you are a pompous old fool who has to tell as many people as possible how good you are, is this a confidence issue with yourself??

You may have been a good player but from the posts I've read from you, you don't sound like a nice person.

Get over yourself & you might make a few new friends.

John.. 

Now now children. Am I gonna have to knock some heads together?

Well Matt,

I hope this explains back spin for you mate....

Personally i think backspin is over-rated...he he...