GOLF, UPPER CLASS?

Me and a bunch of working class heroes rocked up to a course in Gloucestershire on the weekend dressed to code if only a little on the wild side.

The owner of the club was “entertaining” when I asked for 6 rounds. Now there are two courses, an Old, (Harder) and new (Lame) course. This is what actually happened.

He (the owner) proceeded to look us up and down then came out with these immortal words. “You guys would be more suited to the new course” I asked him why that was to which he replied in a sarcastic tone, “I think you fellas will find the old course a little tough for your standard.

He had arrived at this conclusion by the clothes we were wearing.

I am a 12 handicapper, two of my homeys are sub 10 and the other three can bang out the low teens on a good day.

One of his friends had a cheeky chuckle at his comment. So I challenged him to a round for 100 notes off scratch right now. He turned his head and finished his, snowball or whatever those types drink.

We proceeded to leave the club and course with a few choice words to the owner.

I couldn’t help but feel we had lived up to his preconceived impression of us. But I felt better and what you give is what you get.

Is OUR game still considered by many to still be a game for the upper classes or were we just unfortunate to stumble upon this prehistoric ark of a course.

Having heard your version of the incident, Kaiser, it would be unfair to comment not having had the opportunity of hearing the others sides viewpoint.

You have to remember that you encountered one person only at this club and to draw the conclusion you have tells me that perhaps your attitude raised this gentlemans hackles.

My experience tells me that it is new money that has lowered the tone of this game.

I agree with JP on this, and turning up unannounced on a week-end at some Clubs is not well recieved.

Curious, how did you know he was the owner?

TheLyth

I'm glad you did the right thing and went to another course, some people don't deserve to succedd in business!

I've seen it all before....

When I go fishing I have seen the guy who's got all the new/latest gear.  They sit there for eight hours and catch three or four fish,  Me, with my old gear pulling eight or so in an hour and some of them decent.

Shooting is exactly the same, turn up and there's the guy with a new gun, telling everyone how much it cost him.  He's wearing all the correct gear but put a clay pigeon in front of him and it only breaks when it hits the floor!

You can never tell how good somebody is just by looking at them, or their equipment!

It does appear though as long as you've got all the right/new gear then it's ok for you to play.

Russ

I think that the problem in Golf is the same as what happens in life. Some people think that an Establishment should cater for their want. Some people who have money think that they can do anything because of that and are shocked when someone stands up to them.

Private Golf Clubs are run for the benefit of the members who pay their subs and not for the people who roll up and demand to play, then having paid their GF's act as if they own the place.

TheLyth

Wasting your time attempting to explain it to them, Lyth. They just do not understand.

Jason,

A lot of Private Clubs DON'T open their course to the paying public. Some price themselves out of the market. Who would pay £210 at Turnberry (Ailsa), or £180 at Royal Birkdale and has anyone here played Loch Lomond or Muirfield as a roll up?

There are courses for everyone out there, some only welcome anyone who is willing to act in a manner in keeping with that Club.

TheLyth

Interesting in what is deemed wild and suitable golf attire.

Wayne, I've held back from posting your Hollins Hall outfit last year

Very sensible observations Lewis.

TheLyth

Just a thought?

What would this "Owner" have done if Alice Cooper had turned to for a game?

TheLyth

 Kaiser, I think this is 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' Don't blame a bloke,  who doesn't know you from Adam, drawing preconceived ideas about the level of your golf if you turn up looking like the character from Caddyshack...how would you react if someone came onto your patch with a different attitude to you? and challenging a bloke you've just met to £100 game is just confrontational if not a little creepy.

Re: Alice Cooper - simple, he would have done what he used to do when he played with Bob Hope.  Just book the whole course for the day, no arguments then.

Golf is a great leveler and if you treat people with respect you will get a warm welcome at every Golf Club in the land.

On many occasions I have enjoyed the hospitality of members simply because I let it be known that I am priviliged to have played on their course. It is also a good idea to look into the history of a Club before playing there. You can then come up with things like "were you a member here when So&so was the Pro?"

TheLyth 

Another case of gang up on the new guy, kaiser asked a question ralted to golf and extremely relavant to todays golfing forum and he was atacked by certain folk for having an opinion. What difference does it make if he put this on other forums does he not have the right to gauge opinion from a wider golfing comunity. The peolple on here are more than likely going to have similar opinions on golf probably why they frequent this forum and not others regularly due to the like minded people they have something in common with (the reason the GS events are so succesfull).

Mind you it's not just the small minded comments at the end that lower the tone of the thread I see Mr Petit had to have his usual snide, condesending and down right pompus dig from the off. He needs to get some people skills. There are plenty of peolpe who share John's opinion of exclusivity etc but also show respect for other peoples opinions and a tollerance for the younger generation of golfers who are the life blood of the game and if we scare them away we also scare off the beloved game.

It is clearly comments like Mr petite's that provoke a forum headed GOLF, UPPER CLASS?

Mind you it's not just the small minded comments at the end that lower the tone of the thread I see Mr Petit had to have his usual snide, condesending and down right pompus dig from the off. He needs to get some people skills. There are plenty of peolpe who share John's opinion of exclusivity etc but also show respect for other peoples opinions and a tollerance for the younger generation of golfers who are the life blood of the game and if we scare them away we also scare off the beloved game.

It is clearly comments like Mr petite's that provoke a forum headed GOLF, UPPER CLASS?

Mr Hand, if you are going to have a dig at me then perhaps it would have been better if you had  managed to spell all the long words you have used,  correctly.

There is no excuse for not spelling my name correctly as it is printed quite clear above my avatar.

I doubt that your level of spelling ability would be good enough to have an application form to a real golf club accepted.

As I said before it is a waste of time attempting to explain it all to some people, who just do not have a clue about the etiquette and tradition of this fine game. You may prefer it the way it is turning out to be at present, but I most certainly don't.

If exclusive golf courses are happy to let non members roll up and have a game, I think the visitors should show the courtesy that the course deserves.  Unfortunately most people do judge a book by its cover so if you turn up looking like a clown, you should not be surpised if you are treated as one.

There's nothing wrong with bright, funky golfing gear but there is a time and place to tone it down a bit (first impressions etc....)

Agreed, David.

Private golf clubs are much more than a place to play golf and because of this the club ensures that only suitable persons are allowed membership. I doubt very much if anything has changed  since my early days, specially with the cluibs that seek to have members  who are going to all get along.

They usually do this  by, initally asking prospective members to apply with the names of two current members who can vouch for them.  A meeting then takes place with the comminttee and a vote is taken as whether or not one is considered suitable to become a member. Being wealthy will make no difference, it is the personal demeanour that the committe will be looking at.

Those of you who consider this too stuffed shirt would obviously fail at an interview, as I doubt very much one could contain ones natutral attitude.

Of course this sytem does not always achieve the result expected, but it is a basis on which most private clubs use to determine the quality of the person applying.

I have no doubt that my occupation would be frowned upon by most private clubs these days, but I did have the advantage in being a County player at the time I joined my club in Somerset.

A couple of things that come to my mind this week-end.

1. Portmarnock GC have won a High Court case allowing them to not allow women as members, they can still play the course though.

2. The story from St Andrews from many years ago. A man applied for membership of The R&A and was black-balled (not admitted, turned down). He promptly built the large building that stands directly behind the 18th green. If you notice it is built in red brick and the rest of the town in grey Sandstone. It was his way of saying to the members "Remember me, you turned me down for membership"!

TheLyth

Allan,

The Belfry let anyone & everyone on either of the 3 courses. Most of the time they are on a corporate day & the standards & dress codes are on either end of the spectrum.

Why do the Belfry allow this, the answer is simple. It's a cash cow & not a real members course.

Just ask Chris Perry or Paul Williams about the sights & experiences they have had on there.

If you were a golfer of some experience then you would know that the trophy I am holding is the "Ryder Cup". I assume you have heard of it.

Couldn't get the N v S trophy so had to settle for the Ryder Cup for the photo - ah well 

Matt, as you are a newcomer to this wonderful game perhaps it would be wise to do some research on the origins and idiosyncrasies that this game has gone through to get where it is today. You only see the present, whereas, I, being an old fart, have seen the way it has changed dramatically over the past fifty years. Nothing for the better in my opinion, something which you are entitled to disagree with, and have done so.

If you really do assume that being a Senior manager and an owner of a business are what a private club would be looking for in a prospective member then you certainly have a lot to learn. That alone should tell you the difference between old and new money (The expression I used which offended you so much). You would not have been much use in my platoon with that kind of attitude.

Hi Matt, thank you for your comments, even though we are obviously disagreeing.

Everyone who knows me on this forum, and elsewhere, will confirm that I do more to encourage players to improve their game than most, not because of a desire to become popular, but to see everyone reaching the maximum of their capabilities, something I have always done.

As you are saying you are a senior yourself then you will understand that all sports have changed and not always for the better. Golf is one of those in my honest opinion.

"New Money", what does it mean?. It is a term used for the advent in the big upsurge in golf course building that was initially fed by the Corporate market, when this country was booming. Probably 80% of them went bust after taking members money in the form of debentures at grossly inflated prices, which then had an adverse effect on the whole of golf.

Private clubs then realised that they were lagging behind and started to grab what they could with the boom by increasing Green Fees to such an extent that only the rich can afford to play courses that I used to be able to play regularly. Courses like Wentworth, Swinley Forest, The Berkshire, St.Georges Hill, West Hill, Woking, Worplesdon and so an and so on. Far too many to name.

We now have large organisations running large groups of clubs with certain benefits to their members. I am a member of one such group "Crown Golf", not by choice, but because they are now value for money once again.

I am too old now, and am not a good enough player to even think of joining a private club again, as it would take too much time to get to know all the members and I am no longer the competitive animal I was in my younger days.

In the main, Private clubs are still run the way they have always been run for the past 100 years or so and the difference between them and the pay and play of today is vast in almost every respect. The two are as different as chalk and cheese.

Hacking at a golf ball is all I have now, so I will not be taking your advice of packing it all in.

Hello Kaiser, hope you and your dog are well.

All money has to be earned be it old or new.

Judging by your comments I doubt you were playing this game in the so called dark ages. The reasons why there were waiting lists was pretty obvious. Clubs had a limit on the number of members so that the game could be played socially with like minded people, which meant of course that those aspiring to become members made every effort to learn the game and its etiquette so that they would easily fit in when they actually were admitted to a club. This meant, of course, that the only facilities for playing the game were the many public courses. I learned to play the game at one. Chingford, Essex.

I also believe in live and let live, but I also have regard for people and organisations who like a little order in everything.

Golf is a social game and that is why I have never ever played a round of golf on my own. Yet in todays current climate and reading the comments on this forum there are many who do just that, play on their own, and then want to be able to push and shove their way round the course upsetting everyone elses group who are enjoying a social game.

I am quite sure you have your own clique of players whom you play this game with, so don't decry others who do the same. After all, a Society is a clique, isn't it, only open to its members.

gentlemen, i think we need to settle this like true gentlemen maybe pistols at dawn should be the cry and anybody making a wager i will hold the purse, old or new

Don't panic, Philip, it is only make believe, just like the three hundred yard drives we keep reading about.

hi john, shucks !!!! the pistols are back in the box, for now !!

Listening to Kaiser Edwards comments about the owner of the club and his wager to play another member for a cool one hundred pounds off scratch makes me think that kaiser and his mates did not give the owner or the club the right first empression by rocking up to the club.I am a working class guy but I respect the rules of every golf club that I visit and to date I have never been refused a game of golf even with a busload of golfers,so maybe you should look at yourself first Ed

Hugh Copeland

Hi Everybody,

I have been reading the comments and to be honest maybe we should all look at ourselve me included,Someone commented on Rory McIlroy walking up to the golf club,one thing is for sure Rory learned from an early age to respect golf clubs and their members.I have played golf for a long time and I believe that everyone should get the same respect whether they are a beginner or an old guy like me but I also believe that you have to earn respect and maybe Kaiser did not think he was wrong but first impressions do mean a lot.

Hugh Copeland

Golf has different meanings to us all John - live and let live. To you it may be social only, but to others it's a hobby or dare I say a competative sport.

A lot of slow play is becasue of social golfers, who'd rather stand and have a gossip like a couple of old bags than play their next shot; so perhaps the game has changed for the better in that sense.

To me, jonny golf is all of those things, social, hobby and competition. None of those would ever entice me to play a round of golf on my own, with the obvious hassle I would be giving to all of those playing front of me.

So, in my opinion the game has not changed for the better, and only those of us who are old enough to have played when things were vastly different to what they are now, can possibly know.

You have played with me and you will have realised that I am not the most chatty person you will have played with. I get on with the game.

Slow play is a modern phenomena, something you have grown up with, but because I have stated many times what the speed of play was many years ago, you , either refuse to believe and accept my word or attempt to make excuses for this sad disease that has crept into this wonderful game.

Gone are the days when I could play in a 36 hole competition with a field of 90 on both a Saturday and a Sunday most week-ends during the playing season.

I walk onto the course with two types of HEAD on.

1. Competition Head - I will be trying to put together the best score I can. I will be sometimes chatty and sometimes silent, depends on how much I am needing to concentrate.

2. Social Head - Nothing bothers me. I will talk the hind leg off a donkey, joke and still play a decent game.

Each has a place on the course.

TheLyth

Kaiser, I moved on a long time ago when I realised that things were never going to be the same where golf was concerned.

That fact  does not preclude me from stating my views on where it has all gone wrong.