handicap

hi can anyone shed any light on this for me: just got back from slaley hall where i played the hunting and the priestman twice.shot 8 over gross on the hunting and im off 9.4 but didnt drop,then i twice shot 11 over gross on the priestman and i went up which i expected<why didnt i drop after the round(of my life,i put it ahead of 72 ive shot)) on the hunting.

Hi John, Assuming you played from the yellow tees on both the Hunting and the Priestman, then the Hunting score of 8 over par is nine over the SSS of 71 which means that you have played exactly to your handicap of 9 and therefore no cut in handicap.

Your 11 over on the Priestman which has an SSS of 70 means that in actual fact you played to 13 over par and being outside the buffer zone your handicap is increased by .1

Still a great score, John, and one to be proud of.

One of the first things I check on the scorecard is the SSS for the tees I'm playing.

Nothing more dissapointing than to score well and still get your handicap increased by 0.1

Russ

Everyone knows that I disagree completely with the SSS, as it serves no useful purpose at all. The pros don't have to play to it, do they.

Last weeks Medal on our Waterloo, which is a very difficut par 69 had a CSS of 67. Which par fours do I have to make par threes to cater for this. It is ridiculous.

JP thanks for the full explanation, saved me having to do it

I would love to provide a slightly modified golfshake based handicap, simplier to understand and greater increases using an averaging model similar to USGA.  What;s everyone's thoughts ?  appreciate a lot of club golfers like to sync up so hence for calculation similar to CONGU

Who knows, Darren,perhaps you could come up with a handicap system that is not only fair to all, but does away with the decimalisation of the system.

Quick thought Darren (unrelated to this overall subject matter maybe) but

GS scoretracker takes i.e. 17.5 as 17 and not 18 for Stabelford scoring

do you have a fix on your agenda ?

sorry to all for 'butting in' here ! 

On any given day the conditions are the same for everyone.

By having a CSS, which is determined by the scoring average of the bandits on the day makes a mockery of golf pars.

Perhaps we should do away with par and just have a SSS. I don't think.

No matter what the weather a par four is a par four and I have to play many par fours that I have not a cats chance in hell of reaching in regulation figures and you wish to make it even more difficult by effectively turning 2 par fours into par 3's.

Anyone scoring sufficiently low enough to have a bearing on the CSS is playing with a false handicap.

As a low handicapper yourself it must have registered with you how difficult it is for you to lower your handicap under this ridiculous method.

Come down to Sherfield and prove me wrong by going round the Waterloo in five over, just to play to your handicap.

Jonny,

I agree with you. I played in our monthly medal on Saturday & the wind was howling. People who normally drive off the 1st about 250yrds were averaging about 200yrds on Saturday. You then had to aim 50yrds left of the green & hope the wind bought it back!!

I don't think it's fair to compare a par 4 in perfect conditions to the same par 4 in 20mph winds.

I heard Rory McIlroy saying that if he had had to play King Barns on Saturday he was looking at maybe 4 or 5 shots over his normal predicted round!!

John.

Ha ha ha I don't believe it Jonny.......talking of GPS had an email from skycaddie a month ago informing me that my warranty has ended ..........and guess what,Hmmmm.

I agree with jonny p that we need an SSS but until someone comes up with a way of statistically checking an SSS against actual scoring the system will be flawed. 

My home course is par 73 and is SSS 71 off yellows and 73 off whites.  It is not a long course but has numerous bunkers and very penal rough in summer.  When the course assessors came in April the rough hadn't been left to grow so probably gave a false impression of the course. 

Anyway every member I've spoken to says they have no trouble playing below their handicap on away courses so the SSS is clearly set too low.  If a system existed of checking away scores against handicaps the SSS for a course could be tweeked to make it more realistic rather than the current system that just relies on set criteria.

Sale of goods act Dave.  Electronic equipment must be 'fit for purpose' and as long as you can prove the unit hasn't been abused and is less than five years old they have to repair or replace it. 

I am surprised at you JP.

"On any given day the conditions are the same for everyone"?

Having played Links Golf you must have had occasion to get the 'Wrong Half' of a draw. An Early start can differ by up to 10 shots over a p.m. start, and the CSS can't match them up because it doesn't differentiate the time you play. A Nett 71 in strong wind and rain from a 8am start is dealt with the same way as a Nett 71 in warm clam conditions shot from an afternoon start. Add into this, the fact that most of the early starters were Cat.4 Golfers and the CSS for that day is totally flawed.

TheLyth

Jon,

I've checked out Oakmere Park GC and your Admirals course.

If it is 6739yds off the Whites, then it would start out with a SSS of 72, the 'Union' must have added 1 to it for difficulty. Then for the SSS to drop to 71 off Yellows, the course only needs to be 140yds shorter and the difficulty taken out.

Also, 85% of the Members of any golf club find it harder to play to their Hcp at other courses rather than their own. It is simply because they are used to their own course. Have you noticed that when you play 'at home' you hit Clubs from land-marks, taking the conditions into consideration, but when you play 'away' you try to hit Clubs from yardage? Add strange Greens, and that is why it is harder for most to play to their Hcp at other courses.

TheLyth

David its the other way round.  All the members I've spoken to shoot scores lower than their handicaps on away courses which given the factors you've pointed out suggests to me that the SSS at Oakmere should be higher thus reducing our handicaps.  I currently have a congu handicap of 25.8 which I wouldn't dare play off in GS events as I would be a bandit.  However I haven't a comp at my club playing off that handicap and have only managed to lower my handicap once in six attempts.

My main point was that it is a good start to set SSS from a set of criteria initially but it then needs to be tested against actual golf scores.  The best way i can see of doing this would be to monitor members scores on away courses in competitions and league matches.

Jonny,

Which device did you buy??

Not one to say "I told you so" but............

Jonny, the worst thing about them is when youv'e had it a while and then it don't work its like trying to live without your mobile. Mine has started working again think there may be a problem with the lithium battery? how lony should they last,can you over cahrge them?. As for Hcp I will enjoy having a shot off you next time we play . It won't nbe long before i get one off Floody too.

Jonny,

where would you say your getting the most benefit from it??

Dave, I've still got a while until I have to give you any shots

Floody I think me and you should work in sales!! I can't believe what I just read ......If only we could get JP on board ,that might be a sale to far

You have got to love these yardage drawings though don't you. Works of art IMO. I've not use a GPS gadgie and would probably love one but I actually like having a nice book in the pocket to refer to.

You are right that the best players don't guess yardages, but they don't use GPS either (I shall no doubt be proven wrong on this point). They just use decent yardage books (that they and their caddies probably spent the previous 3 days producing) or tryust their instincts and experience. The trouble is that 99% of the yardage books you can buy in the Pro shops are much use as the preverbial choccy teapot

I watched a player on the euro-pro tour and his caddy mapping the course when they held a round at a local course, the pair of them were on the ninth tee for about 15 minutes mapping every visible sapling, bush, hump and hollow with a range finder.  They then went to each of them and mapped back to the tee, drew little countours on a course map, took photos of the view to the green from most of the points with the yardages then did the same with the greens, bunkers, ditches and everything else they could see. The whole ninth hole ran to at least two sheets of A4 and took them about an hour!  It probably took them 2 days to do the course.

Dave, what else can we sell? Jonny have you converted any mates yet?

Still not got rid of the stutter then Floody?

TIM having to update via HTML editor on my phone so its hit & miss