Buying A Golf Game

To what extent would you say you could buy a game...?

Would you pay £300 for the driver that gets more yards only to find it don't in your hands...?

Would you pay £200 for a putter that well actually still misses the hole...?

Would a lesson be more advantageous than a spending spree....?

Just sometimes I see gear being banded about at silly £££££££'s which can only be for the gullible or can it...?

Tell me a story that would justify such a costly outlay or even a story that wouldn't...

All the gear and no idea is a phrase that springs to mind on this one.(Mind you that's probably a good way to sum up my golf of late)

I got all my stuff round April time and the begining of the season as last years £200 driver then costs £80 as it's obsolete. I have £1400 worth of kit if brought when first released but it only cost me around half of that still didn't really need to spend that just did because I could and the fact that I was starting from scrath and needed to buy pretty much everything. I won't be buying any more gear till this stuff starts to fall apart.

I don't see why I'd ever need to be paying full price as a 12 month change in technology is not going to make a great deal of difference to me 5 or 10 extra yards of the tee is only going to put me 5 or 10 yards futher onto the next fairway.

Most guys will buy a complete set maybe once every ten years, so to keep the market going new innovations are put up for sale every year.

There are people out there who want "The Latest" and "The Best" and don't care how much it costs them. They also buy a new car each time a new Reg comes out, or a new model is released. These guys keep the market going and are the target of the advertisers.

Something is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. A £50 driver is good enough for some, but others need to spend £500 on a driver because they 'THINK' its going to improve their game. Its only when you get to a certain level that you can actually get the benefit of paying that price.

TheLyth

Let us know how you get on Wayne and if you tell us the secrets of the golf swing we won't spill the beans...

Don't try to get bogged down in the physics Wayne - I could go into long winded explanations as to why (but won't), but the bottom line is that the only thing that is relevant in a shot is the time that the ball is in contact with the club, for a few fractions of a second.  What goes on before and after that moment is of no relevance whatsoever to the flight of the ball - backswing, downswing and follow through are only a means to an end.

There is a slight flaw in your argument here, Johny.  A 28 handicapper could spend thousands on kit, but would that make him a better player?  Would it make that much difference compared to a cheap and cheerful budget set?  No.

How much does a Pro spend on clubs?  Probably nothing, and in most cases get paid to use them.  This generates the market so that the products endorsed by certain pro's can be sold at a premium.  Give most tour players a Dunlop budget set and they would still wipe the floor with any of us on here 

I participate in many sports and each and every one of them will have the 'Latest Gear Guy'

When I go fishing as I walk around the bank to my chosen spot I will pass loads of people with all the latest gear.   Once I've been sat a while and caught a couple of fish I notice theat 'Latest Gear Guy' still hasn't caught anything! 

The same when I go shooting, Latest Gear Guy will be showing off his new shotgun and telling everyone how much it cost and how it will make him a better shot due to this and that!  Again, after shooting his scores are no better than they were the week before.

Golf is very much the same, you can spot Latest Gear Guy at every club.  Now as for their handicap, well that's another matter.

Some people will be lucky and they will have the means to purchase the latest equipment and also be able to use it, but to be honest there won't be that many of them.

As with most things it's not what you've got it's how you use it that counts.

Russ

Technology doesn't improve the Golfer, just gives him better results.

There are guys on Tour at the moment who wouldn't have had a chance 30yrs ago. The "art" of shot making has gone from the game, because the present day clubs are so forgiving. Even Tiger is struggling at the moment, his Driver is OK for him to slide it L to R, but he can't get it to go R to L successfully every time. Maybe he should copy Phil and carry two Drivers.

The Golf Course its self is easier to play today too. JP will remember the big debates on Ride On Mowers against Hand Cutters, causing knappy greens. Now with new technology and different grass, knappy greens are almost non-existent.

TheLyth

Jonny the one thing that you couldn't accuse me off is caring about the 'all the gear - no idea' merchants, quite the opposite in fact.  All of my woods have come from these people - my old Ben Hogan driver was bought for £50 off e-bay from someone who had upgreded to a Callaway because 'the Ben Hogan doesn't work' - no, seriously, that's what he said.

Hickory, Aluminium, then Graphite Shafts. All had the same playing characteristics, torgue.

Why didn't Aluminium take-off? Because the Pro's wouldn't use them. Why? Because they were soft and would lose stiffness or even break after only a short life.

Graphite hit the UK in 19723 (I know, I was one of the first to use it) but only a few could use it, you needed "fast hands". The Game at that time was being played "with the back of the left hand (for RH)".

New Technology and Innovations come and go, but it always come down to one thing. A Players ability to control the Ball.

TheLyth

How do you think he would have got on with 60's equipment then, Jonny P.

He is virtually saying that the players of that era were better in ball striking than they are today, with the greater emphasis on the good ball striking required with the older ball.

Personally I have not noticed any difference in the behaviour of balls since I first started playing.

I think what has happened is that the new technology has supposedly made life easier for those who can already play the game, but has had the opposite effect on those hoping to learn the game. This is refelcted in the poorer standard of play from the majority, when compared to fifty years ago. Hence 28 handicaps.

If what you say is true then I must have been some player to play off scratch with the equipment of the 60's, although I don't agree, as I believe you learn with what you are given, and all players of that era had to play with persimmon woods and bladed irons.

In the 70's I had a BEN SAYERS 'Big Ben' wood headed Driver with an ALDILA XXX15 graphite shaft. I boomed it out to 300yds and hit the majority of fairways. Today I have a CLEVELAND Launcher 460cc and boom it out to 300yds and hit the majority of fairways. What I can't do today, is move the Ball about as much so I have lost the ability to Shape the Ball round the course.

I also miss hearing the Fizz of the Ball off a wooden head and seeing the Ball soar away,

TheLyth

Hi Lyth, I did not realise that one could get graphite shafts in the seventies. I never came across them till I tried the new metal woods.

You were obviously much more powerful than I was, but I used to be able to carry 250 yards with my persimmon driver and shape it to order. I could easily use it off the fairway as well, although I always made it a fade shot.

I also think that looking at a rack of blades is far more pleasing to the eye than the monstrosities we see these days.

You don't have to belive anything, Jimmy, but I took my old persimmon down to the range a few months ago and asked the local pro there to have a go with it.

To say he was gobsmacked would be an understatement as he ripped it straight out the back of the range with a beautiful draw. I had trouble getting the club back off him. He is only a young lad and had probably never ever seen one in his life before.

Why?, you ask, Jonny. it is because it has a stiff steel shaft and I do not swing powerful enough to load it. You have seen my current swing, so I am surprised you asked the question.You would be able to use it.

The "sweet spot" is the sweet spot and if you hit it 95% of the time you don't need modern Clubs. Its only when you only hit the sweet spot 50% of the time that you need the help.

TheLyth

Help!!!!!

Are you Matt Collins brother? Jimmy.

You are obviously a young man with a strong view, but let me tell you something. The golfers of yesteryear would have more than held there own with the modern breed, if only for the fact that they had a greater shot repertoire.

Telling the Lyth that what he said was nonsense is laughable ,as he used to be a pro himself, still plays to a handicap you will never achieve, so should know exactly what he is talking about, far more than you appear to do.

Jimmy,

May I point you towards an article that JonnyP kindly informed us about earlier. A present day PGA Tour Pro states that he hits The Sweet Spot less than I mentioned.

Also, the oldies on here do talk about the past, if you don't want to get involved in these discussions OK, but others here do. I have spoken to many old sportsmen and enjoy hearing their tales. An old, late friend once said "I aim at the wickets, if they don't hit it, I'll bowl em" that was the mentality of a certain Fred Trueman.

TheLyth

JonnyP.

Going back to your reply, my Ben Sayers driver split, as did most of the old persimmon woods eventually. This is another advantage with modern clubs, there resistance to water.

TheLyth

Jonny,

What I trying to say is that in the "old days" The Sweet Spot was the size of a two pence piece and if you missed it, you got a 50-60% shot. With todays Clubs the real Sweet Spot is the same size but technology now says that you get a 70-80% shot by just hitting it off the Clubface, and 80-90% if you just miss The Sweet Spot.

So if a guy hits it 95% of the time off The Sweet Spot, the different era's will make no real difference, but if he only hits The Sweet Spot 50% of the time, the modern Clubs will be a great advantage to him.

TheLyth

Yes, Sport does advance through time. But if you look at World Records and Golf Course Records, they don't show a massive advance in some cases. The Course Record at Roundhay GC is 62, set by Maurice Bembridge in 1972. Not a great example I admit, but it has stood the test of time.

Tiger is more an athlete today than Jack was in his day, but most Tour guys then also had Club jobs so couldn't dedicate the same amount of practice and fitness time that Tiger and the guys can today.

Where Golf has made big advances, is in the amateur game and the week-end golfers. Modern technology has allowed them to improve further than they could before, but at the top end the new technology has not seen such a big advancement in ability. The top guys have improved because they work at it more today than they did years ago.

TheLyth

Not if they were playing 50's equipment,they wouldn't.

Records and figures can show what ever you want. 55% of people like something, also states 45% don't.

The Open Championship played over the Carnoustie course in three decades.

1953 won by Hogen on 282, 1968 won by Player on 289 and 1975 won by Watson on 279. These don't tell you the weather conditions over the four days, but I do remember that 1975 was calmish.

Paul Lauries 290 in 1999 was done in bad conditions while Harringtons 277 in 2007 was achieved over a course 180yds longer than 1968. Hogens 282 and Players 289 were done with the 1.62" ball too. Do these figures actually show us anything? Not really.

TheLyth

Jonny P.Well Tiger wouldn't have been allowed to play Augusta back then...that's one good thing that has sinced changed from that era thankfully.

Well, Lee Elder played in 1975 and he was blacker than Tiger, so that is 34 years ago.

Jimmy.

Don't know where you get your information from, but it doesn't add up.

The European Tour just drop "short" tracks and move to NEWLY BUILT places. The actual ability of Pro's has actually got worse over the last twenty years, because they now rely on Technology too much. To say "I'm 150yds from the pin so I'll put on my 150yd swing with a 8iron" is not advancement in my eyes. Tiger may have taken the front end further forward but back in the pack there are a lot of guys who wouldn't have made it 30yrs ago.

Maybe the newer courses over 7200yds are more difficult to high handicappers, but they are also more accessable to them today too. Without a Hcp you couldn't have got a game on some tracks 15yrs ago. You were judged by your Hcp, today almost 50% of people who play the game don't hold an Official Hcp.

TheLyth

In the fifties I doubt there were any black players good enough. Perhaps you can furnish me with the names of those who were refused entry to the Masters because of their colour.

Seeing as you wish to go all that way back, what do you think of Henry Cottons, 65 in the Open Championship at Royal St. Georges in the 30's.

The stars throughout the years would have made a fortune in todays events.

Not sure about the 50s but prior to this the PGA had some form of ban/block.

Update: This is interesting to read and before Lee Elder

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/ustour/2391876/By-breaking-the-race-barrier-Sifford-paved-way-for-Tiger-Woods
.html

Also does it matter that almost 50% of golfers don't have an official golf handicap ?

The English Golf Partnership, EGU, PGA, EWGU, documents on the vision for English golf make interesting reading to encourage the growth of golf in the UK.

Powerplay is on the increase and being taken around the world and 6 hole courses are highlighted in some of the reports.   Things never stay the same and change is .... 

Lewis,

You are going down the right road so good luck to you.

A lot of people fall into the trap of buying expensive clubs too early, specially if they get them Custom Fit.

Like you, if you went along and got "Fit" for a set of Mizunos now. Listed at £1200 but sold for as little as £900 at some places they would only be worth £700 after your first game. (no longer NEW but 2nd hand). You then improve over six months and they no longer "Fit" you, so you need a new set, or at least some parts.

The best way to go is to play with some cheap clubs until you reach a position where you feel you would benefit from paying out so much money. Most golfers will buy Clubs as they need them and their Set is split into Driver, Fairway wood, Hybrid, Irons (4- W), Wedges and Putter. They then change each element at different times. Some will change the Driver yearly but have had the same Putter for 10yrs or more. Others will be the opposite.

So the bottom line is "only go out and pay for Fitting with good Clubs when you are at a level that you will keep them for a while"

TheLyth  

It may be invitation but there are criteria that the club follows so if one qualifies under the criteria then they are an automatic invitation. 

By and large, what this means is unlike the US Open the masters does not allow for open qualification but instead regards players as invited guests. Players who meet published criteria are usually invited on an automatic basis.

Invitation applies to the top 50 golfers in the Official Golf World Rankings. Past Champions are also invited, along with the US Open Champions and PGA Champions. The tournament also extends its invitations to British amateur champions and US. In addition, the 16 top finishers of the previous Masters tournament are granted automatic entry, including the first 8 of the previous US open. By and large, the invitation regulations restrict the tournament largely to the PGA field.

It would have been interesting to know, assuming a black plaer had qualified in the top fifty, whether or not he would have been invited, perhaps some more research on this topic will tell us.

So you are saying that one does not get refused entry, yet you are also saying that if a black person qualified then he would have been refused entry.

When were blacks first allowed to compete in PGA events, jonny?

early in the 60s I think

Personal choice, Ollie. Myself I think that more golfers would get benefit from graphite shafted irons. Since I have started using them I have noticed that I have full awareness of where the clubhead is as it loads.