Do you play to Par or SSS?

Reading the comments on the Threads about Handicaps, I was wondering which you played to, Par or SSS?

Do you turn up at an "EASY" course, because the SSS is up to 4 shots below Par, or do you turn up at a "HARD" course, because the SSS is 2 or more above Par?

The reason I ask is that I have read many comments about the Test of a course based on PAR. Two par 70 courses could have vastly different SSS's, ranging from 66 to 74, so which do you play to?

TheLyth

I play to both.  I use the par as a general view as to how my card looks (I aim to go round in +18 at the moment) and measure how my overall game is against the SSS.  Sort of taking par for a quick review and SSS for a more in depth one. 

On Martin's note above, I actually thnk I have more chance of a par if I miss the GIR but I'm within 10 yards of the green as I chip quite well.  There's more reward in being 10 yards short and 5 yards from the pin than on the green and 30 yards from the pin, especially if it's a difficult green. 

Ditto Chris's comments. Being a high handicapper who can hit a reasonably long way it is not really the length of the course (and generally hence the SSS) that is an issue for me but just how well I play on the day.  I'd rather play a high SSS course as there is more likliehood of seeing a cut in the handicap if I have a good day.  That said, most of the courses round my way are SSS68/69 which is a pain.

Hoping to play Shaker Hills GC in Massechusets this afternoon and that is a rating of 74 off the gold and 71 off the blue tees - should be a stern test. 

 I've never ever been interested in SSS and can't tell you the SSS of any club I've been a member of or any course I've played. Par is the language of the masses. It seems to me that people use SSS as an excuse for a poor round or a bit of a boast if they've had a good round.

 By the way, because of new technology I've heard that the lengh of new courses in America is approaching 8000 yds. Is this true?

I play to par because at the start of the day in a comp that's the only target you've got.

There's more reward in being 10 yards short and 5 yards from the pin than on the green and 30 yards from the pin, especially if it's a difficult green.

Chris, I would much rather be hitting GIR & putting than having to chip all the while. Eventually your going have an awkward chip & it will cost you.

I play to par, if i ever achieve it over 18 straight holes, i'll pack up the clubs for good!

I play to par as SSS never made any kind of sense to me

I've never fully understood what SSS is meant to achieve and I've got even less of an idea about CSS so I play to par. Unfortunately it's always well over par.

At this moment in time I always measure my golf against the par for the course.

When (and if) I get good enough then I'll worry about the course SSS.

Russ

So the average scratch golfer hits his drive 260 yards, yet we have 28 handicappers thrashing the ball over 300 yards.

SSS and CSS should be scrapped. The pros only play against par and so should we.

Total length does not determine difficulty. I could ask the pros to play a certain hole of under three hundred yards that I know, that is impossible to be driven, yet is probably the hardest par on that particular course.

It is about time that golf courses were geared up to the the people that play them - Amateurs. They call every new course a championship course, which is a load of twaddle.

You have the best players in the world currently playing Hazeltine - How many will be under par or even level out of this quality field?

Chris,

I didn't think the groove ruling would be applied to amatuers for a while?

The 'Groove Ruling' for Amateurs is coming in 2015 or 2020 or something like that I think.

Also the R&A approved 450+cc heads, so they can also take that approval away, which they did.

TheLyth

The Groove Rule:-

From Jan 2010 all Manufacturers must only produce Clubs within the new Rule. Also the Main PGA Tours will comply with the new Rule.

From Jan 2014 all minor PGA Events and Elite Amateur Events must comply within the new Rule.

From Jan 2024 all forms of Golf at all Levels must comply with the new Rule.

All these dates are in relation to "what comforms" in a Golf Club.

TheLyth 

Some very interesting comments here and on the main it seems that you all play to Par, whatever your Hcp.

A Sports Phycologist would say why play for something that isn't gettable so putting Negative thoughts into ones Brain. If you set yourself a realistic Target then you have more of a chance of hitting it.

KEVIN HEWITT Why go for making a Par4 into a Par3 for SSS and calling it "absurd in extreme" when reaching a Par5 in two shots gets the same result.

JOHN PETTITT if we all played Golf with no Hcp then all the higher Hcpers would have nothing to compete against because the low Hcps would win everything. The Hcp system allows us all to compete together. Also for a course to be a Championship Course it only has to be over a certain length.

CHRIS WATMORE all courses are designed to be played at different lengths, off different sets of Tees but most guys want to play them at their full length, even if it is beyond their capibility.

TheLyth

David, if the handicap system was fair to all then perhaps I could agree with you, but every week I see in my Seniors roll-up always a score over 40 points and just recently 2 scores of 49 and 50 points. As these roll-ups are not used for handicap purposes the handicap never moves for a club handicap, although we do cut them for the roll-up.

I played in a gtour event this year and the winner scored 40 points off 3/4 handicap and they wonder why I have not bothered to play in any more. I notice this man is still off a high hnadicap is still in contention for the order of merit. If you agree that this kind of competitior is what I am expected to compete against then we are at odds about the system.

28 handicaps are a joke and should never have been allowed. The game did fine under established rules for over 100 years, why the changes?

The problem at my place, Chris, is that my club is a part of Crown Golf and they consider my course a play and pay, so they do not operate that many mid-week  competitions. Why our 2 roll-ups can not be used I do not know as we always play off the whites.

 I think it's a bit harsh denying anyone a handicap who wants to play. I believe the majority of golfers do try to improve. It's just those people who abuse their handicap. And for what? Winning a comp by more than 2-3 points ahead of the main competitors is acceptable, any more and the handicap must be looked at. Even more baffling is what are they cheating for anyway? so they can say they won a comp on Golfshake? It's hardly a life changing event and anyway everyone will think you're a tw*t even though they might not say it to your face.

No one is denying anyone a handicap, just that the maximum should be as it has always been, 24, so that after three quarters only a stroke a hole is permissable.

Martin, in days gone by handicaps were a maximum of 24 and one would need to be able to play to this standard before being allowed entry to any golf club. The only time a full handicap allowance was used is in a Medal competition played from the back tees.

The reason it was 24 in the first place was because it was considered that no one person should receive more than 1 stroke a hole after the 3/4 rule was applied.

We now have handicaps of 28 and most competitions played off a full handicap allowance which has brought the game and its handicap system into disrepute. The low handicap players just do not stand a chance these days.

Stableford and Bogey comnpetitions were considered fun comps and were not a regular feature at private golf clubs. Medal play is the only true reflection of ones ability. When they were played 7/8ths was the allowance for Stableford and 3/4 for a Bogey comp.

It is also a fact that since the 80's and the surge in new courses and many more players taking up the game after having watched the pros on TV have taken everything on board that they do resulting in rounds of 4/5 hours.

The stupid decision by the R&A to grant golf clubs the choice as to whether or not a single player has standing is another thorn in the side of those of us brought up to observe the etiquette of this wonderful game. No private club that I know has changed their thinking on this, you will find that every private club will still be operating a single player has no status.

Societies, with a few exceptions, have a lot to answer for the way golf is now perceived. They take over a course, do not replace divots or repair pitch marks and make members feel out of place at their own club.

The standards of dress have fallen dramatically and some look like football supporters on a day out at Wembley.

Golfers are nomads these days, much preferring to play many different courses, rather than join a decent club and become a true member, something I miss a great deal now.

I am sorry for repeating what everyone knows regarding my position on the many aspects of this game. Many of you will just dismiss as te rantings of an old fuddy duddy, that is your choice of course, but I do know, I wish we could return to those good old days.

Martin, the present scheme was introduced in 1983, but before then SSS was based on total length of the course, but as courses have become longer then the SSS differential has become greater and it is now easier to maintain a handicap at a course that has a high SSS then one where the SSS is 2/3 shots below the par.

I found this out when I joined Wimbledon Common G.C.(Second oldest course in England) The par 0f 68 with an SSS of 66 and usually an CSS of 65 made it impossible for me to have a handicap which I thought I deserved. I was six handicap there and at tougher ourses I would have been 3.

Prior to all of this, movement in handicaps was in whole numbers, not this ridiculous decimal system that we now have.

It is easier for the scratch or low handicap man to maintain his handicap as he is now able to have a few bad rounds before he moves up a shot, whereas in my day a bad round cost you a stroke immediately so it was far tougher to maintain low handicaps then. I might add that for category 1 golfers so many rounds had to be in Open competition away from ones home course and the handicap was controlled, not by ones club, but by the County Federation.

As it is far easier to cut the number of strokes taken per round for a higher handicap the  system is weighted in favour of this group and the low man is always going to struggle to win a handicap competition. In fact I only used to play in one of these events a year because of that fact. 

No point in wasting an entry fee for a competition where the chances of winning are slim.

Category one golfers I believe are five and below now, whereas it used to be 4 and below.

A handicap of 4 will get you into your own County Championship, but to play even higher class golf it is imperative to have a handicap of at least 1 or one could lose out in the ballot for places. I have been balloted out of a class competition at 1 handicap.

I was lucky to get a place in the Brabazon English Open Amateur strokeplay championmship held at Copt Heath in, I believe, if memory is right, 1970. I applied in other years but lost out in the ballot.

I'll have to check this but didn't the Federation take control of your Hcp at 3?

Only then did your Hcp change upwards. Normal Golfers had to wait until the Annual Review and then there was a limit to the number of shots that you could get back

Cat1 (+2-3) 1, Cat2 (4-9) 2, Cat3 (10-15) 3 & Cat4 (16+) 4.

Rule 19 (General Play) was also used more in the old days too.

So you put 3 cards in, counting every single shot and penalty the average of the three was worked out and that was your Hcp with a Max of 24.

A  returned score which was better than SSS meant that that players Hcp was reduced by the number of shots he beat SSS, but only the lowest Hcp's in the Cats above (4, 10 & 16) could drop a Cat with the reduction.

An intersting fact about why 28hcp was introduced. Back in 1963 if you played off 24hcp at a very low SSS course (say 65) and went to a course with a SSS of 75 you could play off 28 at that course. Your Hcp was adjusted when you played a course with a different SSS.

I have found a 1963 book which tells us the Handicap sheme then so I now have a reference for that period too, interesting reading.

TheLyth

Where and who are Cat5's?

TheLyth

So which Category would a Lady playing off 4.7 be in?

TheLyth

Arh, got it.

Cat5 is 29-36hcp, which would not be applicable in a Gents Comp.

TheLyth