Putting Stats question.

First putt was from on the green which went past the hole and off the green, second put from off the green and into the hole. For stats, is this 1 putt or 2?

I would say 2 putts, Peter.

Surely it's only One putt as a putt is counted only from the actual putting surface. ????

I would say 2 putts however you could argue one putt and a chip in!!!

If you only count it as 1 putt then it will make a mockery of your putting stats. In fact I would  go so far as to say that every time putter is used from just off the green should be counted as a putt, or those really concerned at their statistics will try to improve them by chipping from just off the edge, putting it close and then cpounting that as 1 putt. There will be others who also chip and two putt when thy would probably have three putted from just off the green.

The same goes with fairways. Surely if you have hit the ball a good distance and it lies 1 foot off the fairway that is good enough to count as a FIR. The dividing lines prove nothing when it comes to stats and that is why I place no importance upon them whatsoever. 

As the stats are for ones personal information only then the rules can be your own choice. Sticking strictlyu to the letter of the law, so to speak, produces stats that are very misleading.

My stats would most certainly show that as 2 putts. After all I want them to help me know my true putting abilities and every time I use a putter from the fringes, I count it as a putt. Not doing so just makes a mockery of the stats. Sorry David.

Surely it's 2 regardless otherwise stats are just knocked out in terms of Putts per GIR, up and downs etc etc

John I'm also with you on the putting from the fringes although I know a certain engineer who will disagree heavily

At the end of the day as long as you record your own stats consistently it doesn't really matter as you can set your own benchmark and know where to improve.

As they say there are 3 types of lies (as in untruths not golf playing surface)  --   lies, more lies and statistics  

Nick I agree with the 15 foot example but the origianl question was relating to if you are on the green then putt off.  So if you putted and went 15 feet off the green and had to putt back on I would say this 2nd putt would count.

I would put down only one putt.

For my golf stats the only putts I count are when the ball is on the green.

If the ball is off the green and I use the putter I would not count that as a putt.

Russ

Russ but surely that is then illogical ?

Say you hit the green in 2 on a par 4, so recorded a green in regulation.  You then 1 putt off the green and then take a 2nd putt off the green which you sink your stats would be 

Drive

2nd shot - GIR

1 putt

technical birdie

how would that work ?

 I would say cast aside your hidden agendas. You've got a putter in your hand it's a putt. It's only those interested in stats that'll argue to the nth degree, usually spewing out stats justifying a poor round.

i don't get that Darren

Quite right Patrick, using a putter means you are putting whether or not you are actually on the putting surface. As Darren explained if one has hit the green in 2 shots making it GIR then putting down one putt alters that stat, so therefore the stats become a mockery.

I have seen people putting 40 yards from the green, would you count that as a putt.

They could have used a wedge.

Just a thought.

 Nick, I always look to see if there is a shot with a putter out of a poorly mintained bunker. If I'm using a putter then it's a putt. What's so daft about it?. The stroke type is within the name of the club.

Nick I know, that's why I think this is true

At the end of the day as long as you record your own stats consistently it doesn't really matter as you can set your own benchmark and know where to improve.

As they say there are 3 types of lies (as in untruths not golf playing surface)  --   lies, more lies and statistics  

Oi, Ramowski, I spotted that!  At first I would probably have put it down as a 1 putt, but now I'm not sure.  But what if it was putted off the green and chipped in with a 7 because of a fluffy lie?  What if I chipped on and knocked it in with a wedge, is that 0 putts? 

However, I don't agree with the 'if you use a putter then it's a putt' mantra, I've used mine left-handed to get out from under trees when I'm miles from the green (usually on another fairway!), so does that count?

There is too much thought into this.

Record either 1 (or as most would do - 2) its up to you.

However, just make sure that you record it consistantly so you know where your at.

In 6 months time when you look back at it and wonder how could I:

Hit FIR

Hit GIR

One PUTT

And not Birdie????

Martin, no, I would not count that as a putt from that range, but certainly off the fringes I count as a putt.

The point I was making is that if you only count it as 1 putt then it alters the other statistics, so which one do you wish to recognise as the truth. GIR or 1 putt. You cannot have both.

David Brown, if you are going to respond to me, then may I suggest that you read the post that Martin made that I was responding to. It was about using a putter from 40 yards off the green. So you should be able to see that what I said was a reasonable response, in that I would not count it as a putt from that distance.

I do realise that he is a close friend of yours, but if you are going to side with anyone it is always best to get ones facts in order before operating the keyboard, as it saves all this nonsense that I have to respond to.

I have not mentioned the European tour as they have rules that are akien to me being an amateur and as I said before about the original post saying that I would count it as 2 putts, the reason is that if you don't then another stat is incorrect, i.e the GIR. You cannot have it both ways.

I am calm, David, but you seem hell bent on stirring this topic up.

Assuming he made a par then either the putting stats or the GIR has to be false. Your choice. I chose the 2 putts. As he used tht eputter twice to hole out. If you would rather have better putting stats and poor GIR then the choice is yours. You already know my choice, which I believe, as do many others was the right decision. You don't. but then that is your choice.

It seems that you don't appear to know how the Stats software works or you would not have writtten your last sentence.

John

Nowhere on this thread did i say i want it both ways.

It was only a question to the forum. I personally think Dennis has got it spot on, as long as you are consistent in recording your stats.

If i was recording mine putting from the fringe would count as a putt, but i very rarely count my stats. It's how many strokes i take to get the ball in the hole that concerns me.

Martin

So we agree, Martin, putting from the fringe is classed as a putt in both our minds. I don't do stats either, because I really cannot see the point, as you rightly point out, it is how many and not how.

There is a first for everything John

It's when you get down in two strokes (one bunker shot followed by one putt)

ah well maybe next time

As already stated a 'Sand save' is when you take a shot out of the bunker and then with your next shot get the ball into the hole.

If you hole out from within the bunker then that is a sand save, and also you get the ball out and then roll in a ten foot putt.

Russ

 I always thought a sand save was up and one putt. The distinction being if you had a similar distance shot on the fringes you'd expect to be down in two.

 Personally I regard a sand save as a v good shot resulting in a gimme (non comp of course) as there is always possibility of a long/tricky putt after a mediocre sand shot.

Stats are there for your own benefit and only mean anything to YOU.

A Golf Hole is set out to be played in a certain way and all Stats relate to that way. Sand Saves Stats show you how you are in Bunkers.

I keep an extra set of Stats that no Software uses. When I reach a Green I guesstimate how far I am from the hole and note that. At the end of the round I have another putting Stat (36putts from 180ft = 5ft). This shows me how close I hit shots and how my putting was that day. But that is a Stat I want to look at.

Stats mean nothing to anyone but yourself. "55% of people asked said they liked me" means 45% of people asked don't like me. Take your pick.

Is the glass half full or half empty

However, I do like your stat about distance David.

I thought to qualify for a sand save the putt had to be for par or better and that was where the 'save' comes from but I may be wrong.

David I like your idea for putting stats.  The usual one of the number of putts taken on the green can often tell you more about your approach play than your putting or the distance you are hitting the ball into the green. 

At the moment I am getting to within 20 or 30 yards of most par 4's and 5's in regulation and my short game is reasonable so I am usually on the green in a resonable position ie 10 feet or less for putting.  However my putting is woeful but this doesn't show up in the putting stats as I am averaging 2 putts per hole because I am hitting the first putt close to the hole. 

Last year I was hitting my third shot on 4's and fourth shot on 5's from much further out (100 yards plus) and therefore would often be putting from 20+ feet.  However I was putting well and averaging 2 putts per hole.

The idea of introducing length of putt into the stats would give a clearer indication of how well you are putting but it is a lot more hassle to record unless you are very good a estimating distance by eye rather than pacing it out.