Real Handicap v Golfshake Handicap

What's your real handicap?

Mine - Real 10.5, GS 10.3 - about as close as they have ever been.

Mine -Real 7.6 GS 7.3

Interesting topic Jonny.  Couple of questions:

1, Do you play often on other coures ?

2, How often do you submit your club rounds for handicaps ?

3, Do you track all golfshake.com rounds ?

Mine is 22 club 20 gs 18 society

Actual 5.6 GS 1.2.

REASON

Since I started using GS I have not played in a Comp at home but played a number of times, entering my scores.

There will always be a difference with GS because it doesn't have the CSS option. A couple of years ago I had several Nett 68's at Filey (SSS69) and my Hcp didn't move because thr CSS was 67/68 everytime.

Mine are both the same as I adjust the GS one accordingly.

I don't think you should have different handicaps, your handicap is your handicap.

Although saying that there could be occasions where people don't play in monthly medals & so entering cards on here is probably going to be a true reflection of their handicap.

Would be interesting to see if by the rules anyone could be disqualified for signing for a wrong card if they used a different handicap to their club one??

David, golfshake.com does provide the CSS option which allows you to override the scorecard SSS stored on the system.  The handicap is then calculated on the CSS and not SSS

Very interesting info so far.  I would be interested in some of the higher handicaps.  As you are all aware the UK system is biased if you have a very good round which can reduce considerable and then only goes back up by 0.1 each time.  Thus for a higher handicapper you could shoot a round out of your skin in non competitive play, record on golfshake and see your handicap tumble but not your club 

John, interesting point. 

We would under normal circumstances always accept the golfshake.com handicap unless someone produced the club handicap certificate, it's occurred in the past.

We are currently adjudicating on a ruling for a forthcoming Gtour event.  Someone's golfscoretracker handicap is 6 shots higher than the alloted club handicap.  Honesty hey

Needless to say I don't have a club handicap and as Darren says, my handicap tumbled massively by a whole 0.4 yesterday so I have a whopping 4 rounds before it is back to 28.

That said, after next weekend it should be down in the low 20's (i'll bring the sombrero)

Everyone knows my views on our ridiculous handicap system, so I will not expand on that any further, other than to say that it sucks.

My club does not have that many competitions as it is not a golf club in the true sense of the word, it is a pay and play with members.

In respect of the GS handicap I only enter cards that have been played under competition rules, which our SeniorsRoll-Up is and of course any events that I have played in with GS or Gtour.

My last eleven cards all show that I cannot play to the handicap that I currently have, so I am looking for some generosity, not that I am likely to get it.

Wayne,

you can enter the cards on here but don't tick the box which says 'include in handicap'. So you can still have all the analysis but your handicap will remain unaffected.

John.

Darren

Its all well and good GS having the option to enter a CSS but that only applies to rounds played in Club Comps when it can be calculated.

I feel that my GS Hcp is nearer my true ability because it uses ALL the scores I imput and doesn't have "Qualifying Comps" and that CSS.

Wayne,

just in time for the NvS

Jonny,

it can't be true, we agree on something!!

does anybody know how to calculate the CSS ?

I gather it is quite complicated ?

Competition Standard Scratch CalculationThis is not a straight forward calculation. Broadly speaking, the calculation is as follows :

• 1.Discount all scores returned by category 4 players (handicaps 21 and above).
• 2.Calculate the percentage of players who competed in the competition in each of the categories 1 (H/Cap 1-6), 2 (H/Cap 6-12), and 3 (H/Cap 13-20).
• 3.Calculate the percentage of scores returned by the category 1, 2 and 3 players which were two over the Standard Scratch Score or the course or better.
• 4.Use the percentages from points 2 and 3 to determine the Competition Standard Scratch Score by referring to one of the two published tables supplied by CONGU for this purpose
• 5.Should points 2 and 3 show 0% then the Competition Standard Scratch is deemed to be SSS+3.

Very complicated.

What it is supposed to do is use all returned scores to give a fair SSS for the day. But what really happens is that it gives a false figure at one end or the other, usually the top end.

It certainly makes it difficult for the low handicapper like yourself, David. I used to have this problem when I played at Wimbledon Common Golf Club, the par was a 69, the SSS was a 68, but almost every comp came up with a CSS of 66. This meant of course that I could only afford to drop three shots to play to my handicap of 6 at the time.

My club handicap is 20.2,golfshake is 22.1 but do not play in club competitions

anymore,so i play with my mates off 22.

14.8 on GS but 13 in my local society. Not got a club handicap. Got docked 2 shots for winning which they do to all the winners.

David, yes agreed, misread on my part.  I just allow people to enter the CSS if they have played in a club comp and track their handicap on here.  A lot of club golfers use the stats and track their handicap to the exact club handicap thus any social rounds are not tracked.

My club handicap is 27, Golfshake 22.6 and Society 20.  My golfshake handicap more accurately reflects my current abilities as I enter all my rounds and tend to score much better on away courses.  Recently i shot 88 on a SSS 68 but struggle to play to 27 on my home course.  I scored 33 points playing off 27 on my home course just last week in a comp.

We have just had our home course reassessed for SSS because one of the par 4s has been lengthened and become a par 5.  Someone told me that the assessment now takes difficulty (eg narrrowness of holes, hazards and slope) more into account than length.  However I was disappointed that the SSS was only raised from 70 to 71.  The par is now 73.

I would always play to the lower of the two in golfshake events as I do not the b word thrown at me and I would gain no satisfaction scoring more than 36 points unless the round was close to my best ever.

Real handicap 21.1, Golfshake handicap 12.0

Yes, at my club I'm a real BANDIT!!!!!

For clarity, I only enter my competition scores at my club, not general play.  I also don't ever seem to score well on my home course, the Abbotts.  I do however score well on the other course, the Priors, but htey don't hold our competitions on that course!  Now that the summer is here I will be hoping to get my club handicap down near to where my golfshake handicap is.

Russ

I am both a club member and a golfshake member. I have always mirrored my club handicap with handicapped rounds on golfshake.

I believe in having one handicap. If I play a qualifying comp at my club then my golfsake hcap is adjusted and tracked accordingly whether it be down or up.

One for Darren

Given that there is a "calculation" (which is complicated enough) but well explained  by JohnP

should not Golfshake provide that very same for Golfshake events (not that i take part necessarily) or even for large societies who happen to be registered with GS as part of the 'agenda' i.e. a means of providing the CSS as a 'matter of course'

have I possibly hit on a sore spot here or have i scratched a little itch ?

The "issue" of course is whether it is appropriate for your GS Handicap to be calculated on the basis of the CSS for that day ?

CSS is COMPETITION SCRATCH SCORE and not COURSE SCRATCH SCORE and that is its biggest problem. It is based on what scores are returned and not how the course played that particular day.

I think that the SSS of a course can only go down 1 but can go up by 3.

If you are a Cat1 player wanting to get you Hcp down, it is not right that you are hoping all the Bandits in Cat3 stay at home. Which this system takes into account.

This may be the end to this thread

Because I have just returned from my Local watching Porto v Man U

And I have consumed a ‘few’ so just sign off  if you so wish

But being a Handicap Sec. - In our Society of 20 players I have a view

First and foremost I recognise CSS and I also recognise CSS as a means to adjust individuals handicaps – what has the conditions of the day actually got to do with it ?

Yes I understand the ‘reasons’

-only to equate your performance against the course with prevailing conditions taken into account    !!!??? big deal !

but fundimentally should not your card be reflected against your fellow individual in order that you get a handicap adjustment against you fellow individuals !

Why indeed do Club competitions actually go through this process?

Do they do it to equate against the course or ??? or to equate against individuals

John Pettit I am sorry I am not aware of your views on handicapping so reply again if you so wish to –including this ‘Question of  interpretation ?’

Colin, you must be happy with tonights results n the football stakes, so enjoy the moment.

If the handicap system was infallible then everyone would cross the line together, but as well know, this does not happen in any tournament or competition you are ever likely to play in. Only last week we played a gtour event at Staverton Park on 3/4 handicap and the winner shot 41 and the runner up 40 points. This tells me that both their handicaps were false, so in  effect we were cheated and everyone is now aware that there are a couple of pot hunters around, so I doubt if the take up for these future events will be what the organisers really deserve.

I have never agreed with SSS as the Pros don't play to it so why should we amateurs. If anyone thinks that this was done so that players from different courses would be able to play together under a fair system are deluding themselves, because when I play away no one comes up to me and says that as this course is harder than your own, here are another couple of shots.

I cannot drive a par four so why should shots be taken off the overall par because the course is not long enough to qualify for the SSS to match the par. As it is I have to suffer with the length of the holes these days, we do not have a par five at my club that I can reach in three shots so the par for me is always 6.

Modern day courses are rated for the pro and scratch amateur but it is the ordinary members who have to play them. We have no scratch players at our club.

Not once have I played to my handicap for the last twelve rounds since my comeback after my knee op. Ten rounds to go up 1 shot.

36 points wins most comps in your opinion, Colin. Tell that to david Ley and see what he says.

It will never win in our club either, always someone over the 40 point mark.

How on earth does anyone get any pleasure from winning a comp in that manner I shall never know.

When players score 40 plus 'Stabelford' it's one of two scenarios Yes they played well 'the lesser of the possibilties' or their handicap isn't correct by definition I believe 36 SP points is what eight times out of ten should win competitions and that is in a 'perfect world ' and how a handicap competition's results should be reflected at the end of the day - but we all know that that isn't normally the case !

...... and we can argue about this an infinitime

John ? you appear to have from your reply to have have received this comment before I even sent it ?? Spooky ?

Colin,

Doing the job as Comp Sec with 20 players is unlike a Club with say a 120 player entry into a Comp. Also take into account that a Club like Filey is on the coast so the days conditions can change drastically from 1st off to last off. They also only had 4 Cat1 players. The major entry came from the Cat3 group and nett 64's were regular so the CSS was 68 most days (SSS 69). So at Filey I had to shoot no worse than 76 to keep my Hcp stationary, what ever the weather. I once shot BEST GROSS by 3 shots and got .1 back for my trouble. I was the only one to break 80 in strong wind & rain.

As I said in a previous post, the CSS of the day depends on the number of Bandits that come out to play. The present system favours players getting shots back and not the lowering of Hcp's.

If a course is a Par72 SSS70 then 3940 pts should win a Stableford.

Stablefords should show a Nett Score of -1 or -2 on SSS to win.

Jonny, I never get involved with debates and sit on the fence but I must say your last reply is actually spot on and this is something we should all actualyl strive for to become better golfers.

All very interesting.

Needless to say I'm a high handicapper and generally score low 30's points but the potential is always there on a good day to better the handicap and see it drop.  John mentioned somewhere that the handicap reflects the potential that someone can play and not the average, which I agree with.  I played on Monday and scored 39 points.  I'm in the zone at the moment and hopefully if I manage to stay in the zone I have the potential to score 40 points or more at the weekend, especially if the weather holds today and I get a good round in this afternoon.  This will obviously leave me open to possible scorn and the b word (I shall bring the sombrero in case).  That said, I know I am no trophy hunter and if I were to score well and it dropped my handicap to 25 say I'm damn sure I wouldn't score in the 40's again for a while - you cannot consistently score above 36 if you track every round on here (which I do).

Jonny,

I agree that we should all strive to beat our handicap. I think John P is referring to people who consistently shoot 40+ points every round.

Jonny,

I agree that we should all strive to beat our handicap. I think John P is referring to people who consistently shoot 40+ points every round.

and....

My ability to score well and drop the handicap depends more on my ability/performance and less on the course.  On Monday last the course SSS was 68.  At the weekend it will be 72 and to be honest I will probably score just as well on the 'harder' course than the SSS 68 course due to the way I play and whilst the points would be the same, the potential handicap drop would be far more pronounced.

and just to nail the point here are my last few dismal but improving) scores...

Click here

Jonny,

Dave Ley will tell you about people shooting 40+ points in comps!!!. These guys handicaps don't get cut as they weren't qualifying comps.

 This was the firsty medal of the whites at my club shows a better picture than previous results Par is 69&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;     Mr David Milligan 76 - 10 = 66 9.8 <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>  Mr Reg Harvey 83 - 16 = 67 15.3 &nbsp;  Mr GA Sutton 78 - 11 = 67 10.4 &nbsp;  Mr MJ Ward 78 - 10 = 68 9.6 &nbsp;  Mr Mathew Sanders 86 - 18 = 68 17.8 &nbsp;  Mr RF Davis 84 - 16 = 68 15.5 &nbsp;  Mr N Rice 82 - 13 = 69 12.0 &nbsp;  Mr S C Williams 73 - 4 = 69 4.0 Lowest Gross   Mr Gavin Davies 76 - 6 = 70 5.8 &nbsp;  Mr Tony Woodham 85 - 15 = 70 14.7 &nbsp;  Mr R Warner 84 - 14 = 70 14.4 &nbsp;  Mr Robert Milligan 80 - 10 = 70 9.6 &nbsp;  Mr David Rees 77 - 7 = 70 7.3 &nbsp;  Mr I Whitehill 89 - 18 = 71 18.5 &nbsp;  Mr MW Channing 75 - 4 = 71 4.4 &nbsp;  Mr M Matthewman 75 - 4 = 71 3.6 &nbsp;  Mr John W Ford 87 - 15 = 72 14.5 &nbsp;  Mr A.lan Davies 90 - 18 = 72 18.3 &nbsp;  Mr PV Mills 86 - 14 = 72 13.7 &nbsp;  Mr JM Channing 73 - 1 = 72 1.2 Lowest Gross   Mr Robin C Ursell 82 - 10 = 72 10.4 &nbsp;  Mr R Lowe 82 - 10 = 72 10.2 &nbsp;  Mr Jeff Collins 83 - 11 = 72 11.1 &nbsp;  Mr S Kelleher 84 - 12 = 72 11.6 &nbsp;  Mr SD Reed 84 - 12 = 72 11.7 &nbsp;  Mr J Smart 87 - 14 = 73 14.2 &nbsp;  Mr IJ Fagg 82 - 9 = 73 9.4 &nbsp;  Mr Craig Jones 84 - 11 = 73 10.6 &nbsp;  Mr RJ Hodson 91 - 18 = 73 17.6 &nbsp;  Mr MS Doody 83 - 10 = 73 10.0 &nbsp;  Mr NB Cummings 90 - 17 = 73 16.6 &nbsp;  Mr Glyn Thomas 92 - 18 = 74 17.7 &nbsp;  Mr SJ Ash 80 - 6 = 74 5.7 &nbsp;  Mr AJ Bees 92 - 18 = 74 18.9 &nbsp;  Mr S Russell 92 - 18 = 74 18.8 &nbsp;  Mr WB Price 88 - 14 = 74 13.8 &nbsp;  Mr Keith Birt 92 - 17 = 75 16.6 &nbsp;  Mr MA Howlett 85 - 10 = 75 9.7 &nbsp;  Mr Dean Jones 93 - 18 = 75 18.6 &nbsp;  Mr John Paul Edwards 90 - 15 = 75 15.4 &nbsp;  Mr Steve Harrison 90 - 15 = 75 14.5 &nbsp;  Mr AD Clark 90 - 15 = 75 15.1 &nbsp;  Mr K Moses 90 - 14 = 76 14.1 &nbsp;  Mr Ross Jones 94 - 18 = 76 24.9 &nbsp;  Mr D Elworthy 89 - 13 = 76 12.7 &nbsp;  Mr S O&#39;Connell 89 - 13 = 76 13.2 &nbsp;  Mr R Davis 86 - 9 = 77 8.8 &nbsp;  Mr D Lane 90 - 13 = 77 13.4 &nbsp;  Mr Joel Kennedy 95 - 18 = 77 17.6 &nbsp;  Mr MJ Morris 85 - 8 = 77 7.6 &nbsp;  Mr DC Lewis 90 - 13 = 77 12.6 &nbsp;  Mr DW Pedlar 95 - 18 = 77 24.0 &nbsp;  Mr MS Ramsey 93 - 16 = 77 16.4 &nbsp;  Mr HP Burke 87 - 9 = 78 9.4 &nbsp;  Mr DP Baker 92 - 14 = 78 13.8 &nbsp;  Mr RG Free 96 - 18 = 78 21.7 &nbsp;  Mr David Woodham 93 - 15 = 78 14.6 &nbsp;  Mr M Ryan 91 - 12 = 79 12.4 &nbsp;  Mr Stuart Cook 97 - 18 = 79 18.3 &nbsp;  Mr MF Tonkin 96 - 17 = 79 17.5 &nbsp;  Mr PG Mackie 91 - 12 = 79 12.1 &nbsp;  Mr WG Webb 94 - 15 = 79 14.9 &nbsp;  Mr Steve Hook 85 - 6 = 79 6.0 &nbsp;  Mr Edward Hinkin 90 - 11 = 79 11.2 &nbsp;  Mr Kevin Ainsworth 92 - 13 = 79 13.5 &nbsp;  Mr DS Hone 95 - 16 = 79 16.4 &nbsp;  Mr R Dorrell 98 - 18 = 80 19.6 &nbsp;  Mr Joshua Powell 98 - 18 = 80 18.6 &nbsp;  Mr AD Edwards 93 - 12 = 81 11.6 &nbsp;  Mr Dwayne Nel 94 - 12 = 82 11.6 &nbsp;  Mr Andrew Dawe 99 - 16 = 83 15.7 &nbsp;  Mr JA Holmes 97 - 13 = 84 12.6 &nbsp;  Mr A Crew 102 - 18 = 84 17.6 &nbsp;  Mr S Martin 96 - 12 = 84 11.6 &nbsp;  Mr TK Thomas 102 - 18 = 84 19.9 &nbsp;  Mr Peter J Matthews 104 - 18 = 86 23.8 &nbsp;  Mr G Hone 100 - 14 = 86 13.9 &nbsp;  Mr AW Griffiths 101 - 15 = 86 14.8 &nbsp;  Mr RJ Lewis 105 - 18 = 87 21.8 &nbsp;  Mr Jonathan Davies 106 - 18 = 88 23.6 &nbsp;  Mr E Morgan 105 - 16 = 89 16.2 &nbsp;  Mr Stephen Free 102 - 13 = 89 13.1 &nbsp;  Mr Gary Miller 107 - 18 = 89 24.1 &nbsp;  Mr Andrew Sanders 107 - 17 = 90 17.5 &nbsp;  Mr AW Walsh 97 - 6 = 91 6.5 &nbsp;  Mr P Dacruz 109 - 17 = 92 17.2 &nbsp;  Mr Lee Whittington 106 - 12 = 94 12.4 &nbsp;  Mr J Hiscocks N/R - 18 = N/R 19.4 &nbsp;  24 Phil F James N/R - 18 = N/R 22.8 &nbsp;  Mr FA Martin N/R - 18 = N/R 22.8 &nbsp;  Mr PJ Elias N/R - 18 = N/R 18.6 &nbsp;  Mr D Hoare N/R - 18 = N/R 17.9 &nbsp;  Mr Ivor Hughes N/R - 18 = N/R 21.6 &nbsp;  Mr A Compton N/R - 18 = N/R 24.0 &nbsp;  Mr Bill Carr N/R - 18 = N/R 21.6 &nbsp;  Mr Terry Moses N/R - 17 = N/R 17.5 &nbsp;  Mr J Baker N/R - 17 = N/R 17.4 &nbsp;  Mr AS Mackie N/R - 15 = N/R 15.0 &nbsp;  Mr MA Burns N/R - 15 = N/R 15.0 &nbsp;  Mr Lyndon Williams N/R - 14 = N/R 13.8 &nbsp;  Mr D Barter N/R - 12 = N/R 12.4 &nbsp;  Mr R Price N/R - 12 = N/R 11.6 &nbsp;  Mr Michael Cook N/R - 10 = N/R 10.2 &nbsp;  Mr William Ridler N/R - 9 = N/R 8.6 &nbsp;  Mr R Prior N/R - 7 = N/R 7.1 &nbsp;  Mr Jeremy Harvey N/R - 5 = N/R 4.7 &nbsp;  Mr Joe Ash N/R - 4 = N/R 4.5 &nbsp;

@johnny p whislt i agree that 40 pts doesnt make anyone a bandit i personally feel anyone who scores in excess of that i.e 43/44 pts i would say is a bandit as 4 shots under = 40 pts is acceptabe improvement but 43/44 pts 7-8 shots under shouldnt be a true handicap = bandit

i am currently playing off 13 and for me to shoot 44 pts would mean to have a round of 5 over par gross i know that even when i am playing well it would be near on impossible for me to shoot that kind of score and for a lower handicapped player it would be even harder

also some golfers who do score 40/41 pts and who regularly play golf probably only have scores like that maybe twicce a year so they are not bandits but those who score that more regularly are doing 2 things either not tracking there scores properly or just giving false handicap information

for instance i have just been looking at the 3counties winter league group and the virtual leaderboard in it and the top 50 people have all scored 44pts and up with the 1st pace person being on 63pts also 1 member in the group was playing off scratch last year and has now manually changed it to 26 and scored 53 pts on his last round knocking his handicap down by 6.4 shots, bandits in the truest form

GS Hcap 9.4       Club hcap 11.1

'I feel that my GS Hcp is nearer my true ability because it uses ALL the scores I imput and doesn't have "Qualifying Comps" and that CSS.'

Absolutely right David, I input every round I play because I play to the proper rules of golf everytime. I try my best whether its a medal round, club major, society game or friendly knockabout.

And Christopher Whatmore, behave yourself and get out on the course, you've got a swing that would make most 16+ handicappers jealous of.

Paul

I even put Match-Play scores in my Game Tracker unless they finish well out in the country. We usually "play-in" anyway.

On the scores, have a look at the Division breakdowns.

DIV 1 40pts is a winner usually.

DIV 2 May go up to 44pts

DIV 3 Can see up to 48pts win

If a score goes over 50pts (14 shots better than Hcp = Nett 56 or better) something is wrong, very wrong.

Yes Jonny, and those scores go in as well. If I'm told to pick up a putt from 2 feet then I'll pick it up and count it as a putt as I believe my competitor genuinely believes I can make it then its good enough for me. Generally I never give up on a hole because you never know what might happen. My matchplay scores are never too far away from either side of my handicap.

But you've only a 1 shot difference, up until Sunday I had 3!

just as a matter of interest and I don't want to labour the point but how many of you guys 'hit' your handicap or better it every 10 games ?

me ? most recently 4 in ten ! (but that is a little bit of a purple patch ) off  the top of my head I'd say normally 2 in ten

I am currently not playing to mine, but there are signs of improvement and living in hope. I played yesterday and although the score of 86 was just about to my handicap I di hit one of the holes in regulation that I have never done since I joined the club. An excellent drive(*Most unusual) and a five iron to die for. If only I could do that all the tme.

I play to my "Recognised" Hcp on a regulsr basis because it is artificially high because of CSS. My US Hcp is now +2.0 simply because I have entered all scores for the past 3yrs on another "Game-Tracker" site.

Heres one that you might like, specially John Pettitt.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR BRAINS Hcp & PRESENT RECOGNISED Hcp?

Mine is BRAIN= Tour Pro (+6),  REC. Hcp 5.6.

I know where you are coming from David, my brain still thinks it is 18 and tries to tell my body how I used to swing it at that age, unfortunately the body refuses to listen.

Agreed, Jonny P, no satisfaction winning by receiving shots. A nice feeling winning, giving shots, though.

2 in 10 about right, somone once told me that when your hcap settles down you should play to it about 3 times a year!

If this thread is destined to continue then why not !

I actually appreciate the Congu handicapping system but i am not to sure about spasmotic competition entry particulaly with regard to those players approaching their twilight years - I think a site like 'Golfshake' which allows for continuous entry is fine because to be honest that is as closer to the truth than many a golfer playing of their Club handicap (I only have a small band but our Golfshake handicaps are more appropriate than our Club handicaps - why because we enter 20 to 50 cards on Golfshake but only perhaps 6 with our club , and don't ask why because that's the way it is !) , in that sense I do sympathise with John Pettit who is getting 'left behind' in this official handicapping system.

Somebody previously aluded to the fact that only the Club handicap is the official one , maybe so, but lets be honest with ourselves what matters is the right one not the official one !

Colin,

The guys who want to play some types of competitive golf need a Recognised CONGU Hcp. You can't enter the "International Pairs" "VW Event" "Daily Mail Foursomes" etc without one. If you don't want to play in Comps like that OK but some of us do, so need an "Official" Hcp to do that. If you wish to play on some of the top courses you also need an 'Introduction' from your own Club.

Some are happy without an "Official Recognised Hcp" and good luck to them, but they shouldn't then complain if they are stopped from playing in certain things because they have not got one.

well put guys !

Exactly Jonny,

There's a guy at my club who in a social round plays well below his 19 handicap, sometimes as low as 12 but put a card in his hands & off the back tees & he struggles to break 100!!!

Another thing to watch with GS Hcp's is that it down to the individual to choose which Tees the score is entered on. They may play off  a set of Tees that are SSS68 but use the Card for the White Tees with a SSS70, so thats 2 shots out with a Hcp.

Chris that is one of the saddest posts I've seen on here.  Just to say I quit playing for 10 years from my late 20s to my late 30s for a number of reasons.  I greatly regret it now.  Perhaps after a short break a sideways shift might do the trick playing in new places or with different people.  Don't forget it is a great game even if some people or the attitude of some clubs try to spoil it.

Chris,

Does this mean your moving away from working in golf as well?? I think a change of scene & playing partners would be better rather than giving up something you use to enjoy.

John.