Pet hates while playing golf

Thought I'd start another thread about what you hate whilst playing golf. Here's mine

People talking whilst taking your shot (wayne knows what i mean )

I'd like to see a few more that I've missed 

John.

People who moan and groan there way around the course...

Then say "I enjoyed that"

Really - could of fooled me....

People who insist on telling you how to play your shot or telling you "oh you hit that fat/thin etc" - yes I bl**dy know and don't need telling.

People who think thier forum is better than ours.

I mean, are they for real..

Can't they spell golfshake...

Or maybe they are just plain dumb...

Right then, you asked for it.   

Well that's a start.  Feel much better now.  Not really an angry person, honest!

Don't start Santo. 

When you have leaned over to check your ball and half an inch of your tee-shirt has come untucked at the back without you knowing, there's no need to stop you as you are about to go into your backswing and insist it is tucked in immediately.  After walking over from the adjacent hole to tell you.  And then stand there with your arms folded waiting whilst it is done. 

I'm all for a reasonable level of dress, but that is ridiculous and IT DOES NOT MATTER.

Chris,

I thought you were referring to me about point 1 as I have mentioned it a few times when you have played my course.

You know the reason why I say it, it is because I do not want other members doing exactly what you said in your previous post OR the pro grabbing me by the collar telling me to make sure that my members adhere to the rules.

Anal - might be but them's the rules.

You might wanna get a longer t-shirt so it don't keep coming out

John.

I'm with you Chris, it doesn't matter at all and anyone who actually cares is a busy ba***rd. Fair enough if you are on tele at St Andrews, but no other reason.

Just to add to the list: -

Poor Drainage, mainly wet fairways: You know the type that are not wet enough to get relief, but wet enough to make you "fat" it and get a face full of mud.

People that walk in your line on the green

People who dont let you play through when its obviously clear in front of them

Them bloody white leaves that make you think everything is your ball

BANDITS!

No, I didn't mean you John.  I know that it's your pro's pet peeve (maybe he should post on this thread!) and there's a way of handling it.  You mentioning it to me as we stroll down the fairway is one thing, the scenario I have mentioned is the one that winds me up. 

Keep your wig on!

You are right, but surely something as meaningless as an untucked shirt can be overlooked on a course where it doesn't cost ££££s to be a member

Paul,

No he's not referring to the pro at Handsworth, he is actually quite a nice chap. I think we've had this debate before but basically if you visit a members club or any other club & they have rules you can either play there & abide by the rules or P!$$ off go somewhere else & play somewhere that don't have the rules you dislike so much.

It really is that easy

John.

No, it wasn't at Handsworth but yes it happened.  It was quite early in my golfing career and the way this guy came across was quite indignant, almost as if I'd insulted his wife, and acted like he owned the club.  I wasn't sure how to handle it as I'd never been confronted like that on a course before so I just apologised and did as I was told.  Needless to say I would've handled him differently now. 

I found out afterwards that he hates the fact that non-members can play HIS course and goes out of his way to make their day miserable whenever he can to try to stop them coming back.  He obviously doesn't realise that these people may be trying the club out to see if they want to join. 

Think you've misread it the second time Paul.  Seems like a general comment to me and a fair one - if someone doesn't like the rules that a specific club imposes then they shouldn't play there. 

I'm with Imelda on this one Paul.  You on nights and getting grumpy again?

Paul,

My comment was not made to offend, in was a bit of 'tongue in cheek'.

Jamie,

Our club does not rely on non-paying members, in fact I can only sign in 1 member at a weekend & if you want to play without a member you have to book a few weeks in advance.

Our club also has a waiting list for new members to join BUT any non-member is made to feel welcome.

It is not just non-members who get pulled up rule breaking etc, a few members I know have had to go in front of the committee for rule breaking.

John.

Jamie,

I agree. I believe all people should treat others as they would like to be treated themselves.

If I ever saw a member doing to Chris what he said at my course I would have a few choice words to say to them.

John.

Opt and pick strike me as choice words but I am not sure that will help Mark.

My tuppence worth 

1)Tantrums

2) Swearing

3) Club Throwing

Actually helps me when someone else does that Col.  I tend to relax as I giggle to myself and that helps me play better. 

Mark,

Here are a few choice words you can add to your dictionary;

I could go on but I think you get the picture!!!

John.

For me it has to be:

Pitch Marks/divots not being repaired

Non golfers on the course (total mare on municipal courses), especially if they decide that walking accross the fairway or sitting near the green (almost on he apron) happens to be a good idea! 

Members who have a poor view of paying guests/non members playing on "there" course.

Paying the Same green fees when temp greens are inforce (at least tell me before i pay that this is the case).

People teeing off before you are clear.

People taking a second or even third ball on the green when you are waiting to play.

Rude Greens keepers. and greens keepers who don give a toss that you are waiting to play.

No women Golf clubs/areas (for god sakes it the 2000's).

Dogs onthe course not on leads.

People picking up your ball. 

Unfortunatly i have experances all of the about over the summer, and all i can say is that if i didnt love this game so much i would have given up a long time ago.

Keith,

Exception to the rule for number 10.  Sometimes you all see the ball land and know where it is.  When you get up there it's nowhere to be seen.  This makes number 17 on my list and is known to us as an Osama Bin Laden - you know exactly where it is but you're buggered if you can find it.  On these occaisons, especially on a busy course, it's acceptable to drop one for three when it's a social game with only pride at stake.  If it is a comp, then you walk back.  I say this purely to prevent slow play and holding people up.  

Chris,

In the instance if you lose your ball & don't want to go back to the tee you should be playing the stroke & distance rule, so in fact you will be playing your 4th shot. If you were to go back to the tee & play another ball then that is your 3rd so your next would be your 4th. Why should this be any different if you just 'drop' one??

I've seen many players try to take the easy "I'll drop one & play 3" option, especially on a hard tee shot.

Sorry but you won't get away with it me .

John.

My 2 penneth

1, Someone giving you tips when you don't ask for them

2, Someone saying 7 for 3 every time you pick the ball out the hole

3, Being called names when you shoot 21 points going out off a 27 handicap, when you low handicap playing partners shoot 21 and 18 points

Jamie,

I often find playing of the fairways is a lot easier!!

John.

John,

Misunderstanding mate.  I meant the drop is your third shot and the next one is your fourth, thus giving stroke and distance.  Generally speaking, if you've lost your ball you wouldn't want to be where you are dropping so you'll be lucky to get to the green in less than five anyway (assuming par 4 and lost ball was off the tee). 

knott end golf course,we are there as a visiting society when some scruffy,old before his time,stained beige shorts and nylon blue socks,with a polo shirt you wouldnt wish on a scarecrow,emerges after duffing his tee shot,to inform my very tall mate his shirt is untucked...he stood there waiting too and was given our thoughts on his unnacceptable effort at dressing for the game,questioned about his sexuality because he insisted on watching him undo his trousers,then was told to go away.we are concious of dress codes and etiquette,but i wont accept any member bullying paying visitors because theyre in a pissy mood,i dont want to play courses with members who are wannabe traffic wardens. when you think we could be putting around £700 in their coffers for the day,its their loss.

Mick,

In instances like this I would have taken his name & reported him to the pro shop after your game.....or ask him if he's seen the trick where you can bend a 5 iron around someone's head

John.

thanks John,might have missed with a 5 iron,better with my trusty 7 ... thankfully people like himself are few and far between.most clubs do give us a warm welcome and we also have our part to play too in being model guests.

Agreed Keith.  When you know you should've played a provisional, there is no excuse.

Keith, the R & A rules do cater for every instance, yes, even the ones you have just quoted. A ball can end up being lost under almost perfect conditions, but the rule is stroke and distance, not just drop one where you think it may have been. Even to claim a lost ball in a hazard, it has to be certain that is where the ball went.

As Chris has just said, there is no excuse for not playing a provisional, hardly worth it in a stableford, but has to be done in a Medal.

so if you teed off,saw where your ball landed,got there couldnt find it,but the ground is water logged and the chances are it is plugged,that would not be stroke and distance would it?

I am afraid it would Mick, as the ball is lost and the only option open to you at that point is to go back to where you played the original shot from and take a 1 shot penalty.

im gonna have to re read the rule book,thought some rule covered a ball being lost in adverse ground conditions ... thanks john.

Hi Guys

My pet hate whilst out on the course is my abilty to put the ball in exactly the place I wasn't aiming....like in the trees or the hazards.

Also picking the ball up on the fairway and cleaning it in the winter........play the f**ker where it lies....as if a wee bit of mud is gonna affect my inadequate swing. And the fella we've probably all played with or against, that has to point out every shot and count from 1 to 7 when you ask him what he shot on the last hole..only to say with confidence 4...................

Andy

Keith, I am not picking you out at all, in fact I sympahise with your obvious unhappiness at having to play on courses that are in such bad condition.

The scoring part of the course is the greens, as that is the only area that a shot can be saved, unless of course you are Tony Verboom (Boomer) and can drive the ball onto greens in one shot and hit the par fives in two.

If your handicap is based on these sh*t courses then you are indeed a good player, as you would fid a nice condition course much easier to score on.

The Pros, as you say, have their own rules and having played with more than my fair share over the years, take advantage of anything that is going. The tournament committees draw up local rules for each tournament depending on the conditions.

You will also notice that they do not play on courses that have rough of the punishing variety, which we amateurs seem to have to contend with all the time. They also only play to par whereas we have a stupid SSS system, which rates course difficulty, but has not put in place a method to allow for this when playing other courses, be they easier or harder.

I cannot agree with you that you should be able to make your own decisions in respect of some of the conditions you seem to be plying under. The rules must be obeyed at all times or what you score is meaningless.

Of course in the old days, golf courses were built on suitable ground, now the majority of the new ones are built on farmland, which always becomes muddy in the winter.

John,

I agree that in an organised comp of any description, the rules are the rules, be they R & A or local, and must be adhered to.  That's a given.  However, in a Saturday morning knock around with friends where the only thing at stake is bragging rights, I feel that simple variances that keep the pace of play to a reasonable standard and reduce the impact on others (and the course) are appropriate.  A topical item at present is leaves. 

If the whole group sees your drive land and agree that you will be able to find it but that area is thick with leaves and the ball cannot be found, I think it is acceptable to agree to take a drop in that area as a third shot to prevent a long walk back and a delay.  This keeps up the pace of play and will have little or no bearing on anyone or anything other than the amount of exercise you get and reducing the delays on the course.  It's a common sense approach and as long as everyone in yor group is happy then it shouldn't be a problem. Whilst this may not be in the rule book, I believe it is in the spirit of the game; the penalty has been taken and the game can move on without undue delay. 

If that is what you want to do, Chris, then who am I to object. Myself, I would not even consider it and I lose balls in leaves just the same as the next man.

I suppose because I only play competitions in the main then this situation dows not arise, but having said that I played a friendly with J P , David Ley and Kevin Hewett last week and we would not have dreamt of introducing our own rules. I would be offended if anyone were to offer me a drop because I lost a ball in leaves and I would not take it.

Laughing to myself here, Keith. 250 yards is way out of my league, I'm afraid.

Like I said earlier, you are perfectly entitled to do what you like when playing friendly golf with your mates, just that I feel one cannot count a correct score unless all the rules of golf are adhered to. This is a game of ifs, buts and maybe's.

If you drove 250 yards John I'd want you drugs tested. 

I doubt there is a drug on the market that would get my drives up to 250 yards, Chris.

I think we all agree that in the situation described JP, the next shot you played would be your fourth. 

I disagree (As you all knew I would). In theory that sounds OK, but in actual fact that is based on an assumption that the three off the tee ended up 250 yds down the fairway when it could have possibly ended up out of bounds, or in a water hazard or even a bunker. So playing four is giving an advantage even then.

By playing four then the hole is not completed legally and neither would the round be, so the final score could not be submitted for any purposes.

I have to agree with John on this.

I think if you apply your own 'rules' then you are not relfecting your true handicap. I would be interested to know how many cards have been entered on this site where a 'rule' has been applied, thus blurring the true results.

As John said, if you drop a ball down where you think the ball was lost who can honestly say you would hit another one to the same spot?? If you want to speed up play then hit a provisonal.

John

Have another chocolate bar, John.

decisions, decisions. Mars, snickers, kit kat, snack or caramel??? I know I'll have all 5!!

Keith, if you have no intention of keeping scvore then you can do what you want, but if you wish to record your scores then I am sure you would like those scores to be a truthful and accurate account of the round played. To do this then the rules of golf have to be applied. Having recorded over 100 rounds on Golfshake tells me that your scores are of interest to you, so are these scores under the rules or to your own definition of the rules.

Regarding Rule 27, I suggest you read it again, as to what you are referring to is the two stroke penalty for a breach of the rule, now by refusing to go back to the original spot and playing under the rules you think to ylkurself that what you quoted gets you out of jail, well I am afraid it doesn't, as each individual breach of the rule incurrs the two shot penalty and this would be incurred with every shot made afterwards on that hole. I am sure you would not wish to record double figures for a hole just because you cannot be bothered to play by the rules.

Having said all that, I could not care less whether you wish to play under the rules of golf as laid down, or to your own rules, but in the end one is only cheating oneself by not playing the game as it was intended. I should imagine that playing Hainault you will no doubt come across many players who just do not have a clue about the rules and this is a pity, as both courses are excellent, having played them fifty years ago.

I am not attacking you personally, Keith, just stating my view, a you are.

If you are still in doubt, Keith, then I have not cleared up the rule to your satisfaction.

One cannot agree to waive a rule of golf without incurring a penalty under the breach of rules which you pointed out. Penalties only occur when one strikes a ball and therefore it is obvious that each striking of the ball incurrs the penalty.

I too used to play Hainault when I traveled from Wood Green to the course getting there at 0430hrs in the morning, just to get a tee time for 1000 hrs. Yes golf was that popular in the late fifties/early sixties and one must remember that the only courses new players could get a game were the public courses owned by local councils. In those days I played Hainault, Chingford (I was a member) Whitewebbs Park and Mitcham, with an occasional trot out to Batchworth Park, St. Albans.

It would have been impossible to pay a green fee at a private club unless you were a guest of a member, or you had a letter of introduction from your own club.

With the boom in the new corporate play and pay courses, combined with the higher incomes being generated, in this day and age, we are now witnessing an explosion in the numbers playing and an obvious lowering of all the standards in many respects, with which I grew up with, in this wonderful game.

I expect you are now thinking that I am a snob, but let me assure you, I was a truck driver for all of my working life and snobs do not come from old money, but new. I could drive my artic into the car park at West Hill Golf Club, Woking, Surrey, change out of my overalls, shower and would be welcomed by all members. This could not be done today. I could afford the green fee on drivers wages, I certainly could not afford to play there now.

Maybe this strict criteria is what encouraged one to improve to a standard (Max 24 handicap)that was acceptable to a club, in order to have you as a member. I will not go into the other part of membership that necessitated an interview with the committee.

Keith,

John F - "I think if you apply your own 'rules' then you are not reflecting your true handicap."
What handicap? In causal play why would I be using any handicap? In our usual Saturday morning gang (I say gang, at 44 I am the youngest there by miles) we all play off scratch and the end scores are purely a curiosity. It is the playing that matters, not the scoring. Again I stress the situations I highlighted are very unusual and very rare.

With repsect I am referring to your 20.2 handicap that you have obtained by entering cards into Golfshake. If you are also playing stroke play week in week out then are you guily of (dare I say it?) slow play?? If you were to switch to playing stableford & apply your handicap then you might not get situations where people are putting for 9 or 10's, thus speeding up play. I've not seen you play so I'm using theoretical situations. And if you are only using the end scores how can you see if your improving if one week you apply a 'rule' & the next you don't?

With regards to hitting a provisional I was referring to situations where the ball may have come to rest in an area where there are lots of leaves. I can't imagine a situation where you couldn't find a ball that landed in the middle of a fairway. Also the stroke & distance rule cannot be applied if your last shot was from the tee, unfortunatley you have to go back to the tee.

John

John

I played a municipal course today which is contracted out for maintenance.  The company that does the maintenance takes the attitude that all the leaves will eventually blow away and doesn't gather them up.  On the seventh hole that is lined with sycamores I can assure you it is very easy to lose a ball in the middle of the fairway in the great clumps fo leaves that are presently lying there. 

Also on a day like today it is difficult to know whether your ball is in leaves or not as you leave the tee as the wind was moving huge amounts of them around and a ball in the clear could be covered in leaves by the time you reached it,

So to get back to the original thread I'll add courses that don't make any attempt to gather up leaves.

Keith,

not trying to wind you up mate. I cam e to the conclusion that you & your mates were playing stroke play every week by your statements :

What handicap? In causal play why would I be using any handicap?

This to me suggests that your not playing stableford or matchplay as you would need a handicap to pit yourself against your playing partners....

so if your are playing stroke play, do you 'pick up' after a certain amount of strokes? If you do how can you compare your scores to previous weeks consistently? & if you don't pick up after a certain amount of strokes wouldn't this take longer than groups who are??

Take your point on leaves etc.

John.

Keith,

I'm not saying you are slow but can you see what I'm implying? If your playing stroke play & not picking up until you hole out then this must take longer than if you were to play stableford & you were to pick up if you can't score on the hole. Unless of course you are taking less than an average of 6 of every hole but if this was the case your handicap would be lower than 20.2.

I think also it doesn't matter if you score an 8 or an 18 on for example a par 4 as the handicap software will 'round' these down for calculation purposes!?!?

Jonny P - rather than scroll down use your 'end' key to take you straight to the bottom or your 'home' key to take you straight to the top.

Cheers.

John.

Jonny

You obviousley play stroke play & you are entitled to finish the hole BUT if you are playing stableford or matchplay & you can't score or win the hole then you are not playing those games to the rules.

Keith, as you can keep up a good speed of play & never hold anyone up then there is no problem but you can imagine the scenario where a group of players who can't do what you do & are playing stroke play COULD hold other groups up.

Thanks,

John

Jonny,

that's fair enough then as long as you don't use this handicap when playing comps etc, also if it's meaningless why do you enter your scores on this site??

John.

Jonny,

glad to see your picking up on the rules

John.

For those of us who are golfing nomads, this is the closest thing we have to an official handicap.  It allows me to see what sort of level I am currently at and roughly how I compare to others.  I enter all cards and use all of them to track my handicap - no exceptions for good/bad rounds.  I want to see how my game is progressing and that's why the handicap on here is of use to me. 

Jonny,

In your own words "I'd like top point out that the handicap on this site is purely for entertainment purposes and is in no way official in any shape or form. It's a meaningless figure really"

How can you justify using this handicap when you have stated it is not official?????? Are you a bandit?? or an under achiever???

Also I am a member of a private club & have my handicap calculated their so it this handicap that I use for comps & this is OFFICIAL so where am I not adhering to the rules????????

also if your are playing a proper comp & you lose your ball on the fairway then you would have to play 4 from the fairway & not imply a 'local rule'

John.

Jonny,

Just so you know if you use your GS handicap in an offical comp (like a pro-am etc) & they find out you can be disqualified as you will be signing for an incorrect card as your 'official' handicap is 20. How do I know this?? because there is a member at my club who like you had a handicap of 20 which he couldn't reduce when playing stroke play in monthly medals but could quite easily play to 12 of the yellows. He was fed up of being called a bandit when playing in pro-ams so the next one he entered he played off his '12' handicap & he signed his card accordingly. They found out & disqaulified him!!.

It's also strange how you say that a more realistic handicap for you is 11??? Why can't you reduce your club handicap of 20 then???? Surely if your playing from the comp tees in comp conditions this is your true handicap or are you saying you haven't entered anymore cards since the original 3?

John.

Jonny,

Ok mate, I was simply responding to "John - you can't use this handicap when entering proper competitions - surely that's against the rules?"

Kevin - Is there a limit to the amount of times or number of shots you can 'request' a handicap change as the committe at my club don't like doing changes just because of requesting it but will take into consideration 'general play' but you have to submit the cards.

John.

Are we going to let jonny play off 20 next week kev,you know give him and JP a chance??

Any way back on topic Peev's  , when someone says  "Great shot" when it wasn't and they have no clue to what you were trying to do, also when they pipe up "you've gotten away with that" when it's exactly what you were trying to do!!.Walking on my line especially on soft greens,oh and this one, talking smutty on the tee ,you know who you are ,how you suppose to focus with them mental pic's in your head.

"You lifted your head".  Really, no sh!t.  I'm annoyed enough about it without you telling me! 

This is even more annoying when the other person says it in a self-rightous, know-it-all, I'm an expert way when they only reason they are off 28 is because they aren't allowed to play off 57.  Or, when you know it's because you moved the ball forward in your stance to allow you to get more height but didn't adjust your swing enough and your head didn't move at all. 

In response to your's Dave, if the brother-in-law is beating me I tell him what I did to his sister the night before - screws his game up for about four holes!

Ha Ha , yes Kev thats one i've learnt off JP, and it worked !!

I must admit i say something similar on our par 5 13th in team matches, when my opponent  says whats the form on this hole Dave. Well i say you see the big pond up on the left,and see that hazzard on the right with the red stakes,next to the OB,"yes they say" see the the hump across the fairway we call it whimps ridge "whimps ridge" "yeh,thats what the members here say to each other if you don't clear it".

Stand back and watch 'em pump out thier chests. It's only 210 off the back tees but i cant stop laughing inside.

Chris, do you say this while you play the banjo as well????

Chris if lifting your head was your only problem ,hey bud............... Add this one,

"That's exactly where you were aiming"  I ####### know ,thats what you do when shaping shots the ball don't always oblige though!!

I dunno, can't leave you lot alone for five minutes without a war going on. You are all supposed to be friends.

At least you didnt start this one John, you're slacking.

I have been out playing for serious money, lost again, then the car would not start at the club, so had to have a breakdown call-out. The mechanics these days know nothing so he lifted me to my local garage, where I am sure they will fix it.

Back on topic.Yup I agree with Jonny on Mon 10th Nov 2008 16:13 

I'll add some pagination, took me the last 3 hours to read through all this and see where I got to last time.

Regards, Darren.

Ahhhh Mr Ley, that's one I know only too well.  In my case it's when the expected slice that has happened on the previous 32 shots miracurously disappears at an inopportune moment. 

And Mr Flood, it's his sister, not mine.  You know full well I'm not from Mississippi. 

pet hates?

people called Wayne and Tim scrapping a win

Don't worry too much, Simon, we are closing the gap. We will have a stronger side next year as all the new low handicappers live down south.

Scrapping (Scraping?).  I don't recall anyone on our team fluking a 20yd bump and run to even it up, especially if had the pin not been in it would have probably ended up as the longest drive.

Other pet hates of mine include:

People with matching clothes, head covers, bags and trolleys.

People who claim that a chip-in was deliberate

People with flashing LED message belts 

of course that amazing thin was deliberate. It takes many hours of practice to be that bad/good. bit like Les Dawson playing the Piano!

Tim, I shall be back with a far more impressive outfit for next year!

I am working on it young man

There are some of us low handicap players up north as well John. The game will again be good but the north will prevail, if only for the justification of santo's most colourful outfit

I am sure there are. Martin, just that I think we can produce more than you, after all last year was very tight.

I admire your confidence, Wayne, but I am sure we will get a stronger team next year than we did last, because no doubt you gave us your worst players, with special instructions on how to throw a game.

John,

If Wayne had of done that then you would have had Chris on your team

I would have had Chris as a partner and with my coaching he would have had his best round ever and we would have won our match, as I did mine anyway. You saw how I talked Paul round the course at Ombersley to victory.

I was busy carrying Mr Flood round the front 9 John.  We made good use of the shots I had.   

I am sure you did, Chris. So the Midlands is classed as the north then.

Yorkshireman born and bred John.  It would go against my heritige to play for the South.  Our captain from last year is much more a southerner than me....... 

Paul we've got to be one or the other in a North v South match.  It's easy for me hailing originally from Southampton where the north and people with funny ways starts at Winchester.

Ok then no one between Oxford and Manchester can play............

At least I don't resort to trying to blind opponents with my clothing.....

Wayne, the thought never occurred to me and as far as I was concerned it was just a nice friendly day out. If anyone was taking it seriously it was your North team as you were a more bonded unit than us thrown together from the South. Next year though, we will have no excuses as I feel sure we will not struggle to get a team.

Kevin,

That's a great suggestion I'd be up for that. Being a Midlander all my life I've been called a few things but never strabnge!! Is that some weird Welsh lingo?

John.

That's opened up a can of worms.  I would suggest if it's not broke don't fix it so keep it North vs South especially as a region based competition is being set up for next year anyway. I will be proud to represent the South if selected but will be just as happy to play in the East Midlands qualifying comp which is my adopted home.

Another one.........when other players are helping me search for my ball and someone says"Are you playing a Top Flight Balata".........................please as if!!!

I could let you have a few if you really wish to play with a good ball, David, those bridgestones get lost too often.

You have a point there John,I notice in formula 1 the bridgestones dont last very long either........perhaps mine are remoulds. Lol.

A bit of a private joke for those  that don't know , JP's  preffered ball is aTF balata,which he gets around very well.