calling through!!!

after playing too half decent rounds this week, today i played the final round of three to be forward for my golfshake handicap. got to the course only to find i was behind three very basic groups of players.

the first group called me through, for which im gratefull, but the other two groups would not budge for love nor money, for example having stood near the one group on the 17, totting up there scores the one lad had 168, and i felt everyone of thoses shots

golf ettiquette asks for slow plays to "call through" but as a golfer do you have the right to declare that you are going to play through a they were determinded not to allow us.

this had a big effect on my game, and i know were not supposeed to let it effect us but i challenge anyone to say that its dosen't effect there game. please enlighten me!

I hope you were not a single player determined to force your way through everyone in sight.

Personally I make every effort to make sure that if the course is full of fourballs then I attempt to make up a four with whoever is around. I never play on my own as it is no fun for me and only spoils the games of those in front who get a complex because they know they would be holding me up.

I blame the clubs, tee times should be alocated to cater for two balls and threee/fourballs so that this situation does not arise. IMO singles have no standing and most clubs still maintain that rule.

Paul,

Did you ask?  I've been held up before and usually a simple request to be allowed through is enough.  If they say no (only happened to me once) then a couple of holes of my ball rolling past them as they take five minutes deciding whether it is a 9 iron or a pitching wedge they want to shank 20 yards soon gets the message over. 

John, I agree that wherever possible single players should join up, but sometimes circumstances don't allow this (only doubled up twos and four balls on the course).  The R & A now say that single players have the same standing and I have to agree with that.  Like Paul I work and have a family and sometimes I like to just do 9 holes after a hard (or crappy) day and occaisionally would prefer to have some 'me' time and play by myself.  I'm sure there are many others in the same position.  Whilst members only clubs are likely to frown on singles, especially as there are always other members to join up with, my experience is that clubs that allow you to pay and play give all players the same standing as per the R & A rules.  That said, they generally ask you to join up with another group if feasible. 

We've had this debate many times before and it often gets heated, so that's all I have to say on the subject (unless someone offends my honour and challenges me to a duel).

Chris, the R & A may have introduced the single player now has standing into the etiquette of the game, but I am quite sure you will find that the majority of Golf Clubs, will still state in their interpretation of the etiquette, that a single player has no standing.

Paul, believe it or not, I too have fathered five children, worked exceptionally long hours as an international trucker away from home for periods of three/four weeks at a time, so your sob story about the pressures you face in trying to get a game in, just don't wash.

I just would not dream of going onto a golf course as a single player and expect that I should charge through the field because of it. The fact that you do, tells me that you could not give a monkeys about the enjoyment of the game of others on the course, in front of you.

Golf is a social game, but it appears to me that too many of these newer,modern day golfers, as you put it, think that it is OK to spoil other peoples enjoyment of the game, just as long as theirs is not disrupted.

Another  detrimental aspect of the modern game is the length of time it takes modern progressive players to get round a golf course. The days of 36 hole competitions in one day has long gone, they now have to be played over two days and all because this modern day golfer just cannot move himself fast enough, cannot swing a club without hovering over the ball for an age, stay rooted to the spot wqhen putting, leaves trollies at the front of the green and mark scorecards before leaving the green.

Have you ever considered that what you consider progress in the game is in actual fact detrimental in many ways. The standards of dress are becoming even more slovenly as time goes on, changes to the handicap system have allowed people to play competitively without having to bother to learn the game, as we quite often see when some societies are in front of you on the course.

Simon, the old single player rule, still adopted by the majority of proper golf clubs, is not ridiculous at all,it was introduced for a purpose and if anyone fails to see what that is, then I am wasting my time even discussing it.

Just a small hypothetical question to all of you doubters, supposing I started behind one of your society get togethers with say a field of twenty, i.e five fourballs, would you, in all honesty, allow me, as a single player to force my way through you all. I very much doubt it.

Seems you have lost control then, Paul, one should learn to keep ones emotions in check, especially when on a golf course, as your attitude is likely to get you into trouble.

Everything I said, I meant, and if you feel differently, then you are quite at liberty to put forward your case, but it seems that you are unable to do so without resorting to yobbish behaviour.

Please remember that if I wish to answer yours or any others posts on here, then I am at liberty to do so until the owners remove me from the forum. Unfortunately for you what I say is the truth, and we all know that hurts. Goodbye to you.

It seems to me Paul, that it is you who has gone off the deep-end. Using capital letters is considered shouting and I never listen to anyone who shouts at me.

John,

I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows that two of your pet golfing hates are slow play and singles on the course.  With regards to singles, I do not believe, as some have suggested that it is "the old guard fighting against change", but just a firm belief that our wonderful sport is one of society not seclusion.  I'm sure that you know me well enough to take my following comments exactly in the manner I mean them; with respect from a fellow golfer who wants everyone to enjoy this game and all it encompasses, but not at the expense of others. 

I know the subject of single golfers gets your back up and this can cause your words to come across as much more abrasive than you intend as it is a subject you feel passionate about.  To ths end, can I suggest that you bite your lip (or I suppose fingers) and allow your thoughts to cool before posting when the subject comes up?  "Debates" typically are with persons new to this forum who are unaware of your triggers and when they are ignited the fight or flight response is initiated with them.  This causes them to either apologise profusely for upseting you or kick back as Paul did.  As for those of us not so green to the site, and especially those that have had the pleasure to hold a conversation with you face to face, know that you are not spoiling for a fight and are just being passionate about your beliefs. 

This is nothing more than a suggestion.  I am not attempting to silence or censor your thoughts and input.  As you have rightly said, this forum is for all to have their say and air their views, and many, including myself, have served their country to defend that right.  All I am suggesting is by taking a couple of moments to consider your words, the debate could be held in a tone where the focus stayed on the subject at hand rather than questioning each others personality. 

Paul, I do not know you well enough to comment on your personality, so my comments are merely supposition from an outsider based on observation of recent posts (this thread and others).  You unwittingly pulled John's trigger.  He responded by unwittingly pulling yours.  Result - conflict and, dare I say it, agression.  When John's back is up he is the voice of reasoned argument, turning your own words against you and adding a subtle twist of the knife (you would've made a fine politican John!).  You Paul are more 'direct' in your venting.  Both styles further aggrevates the other. 

It would appear that a simple misunderstanding at the beginning of the thread has led to two people rubbing each other up the wrong way.  I would suspect that if the two of you met without realising each other's identity you would probably get along quite well.  We all want to use this forum to talk golf, Tim's latest invention, Santo's latest fashion faux pas, Darren's failure to respond to e-mails and phone calls, plus other various nonsense.  None of use wish it to be used as a means to insult, defame or discredit others (barring a couple of courses and retailers for the information of others).  To this end, can I suggest that we resolve the matter by ending this thread and starting again?

Paul, it is impossible to offend me, especially on a forum, after all is said and don, a forum is for an exchange of views not to attempt to get others to change theirs.

Being old school I have seen the changes that have occurred in this game over a period of 55 years and IMO they have not been good ones, for many reasons which I will not go into at the moment.

Everyone used to walk and carry their bags, a fourball took just three hours to go round and the standards were far higher because handicaps were pegged at a maximum of 24 and only 7/8ths allowed for stableford, 3/4 the difference for matchplay and full handicap only for medals.

As a newcomer you will be guided by what you see in your immediate surroundings and the players you play with, but it may not be the education you are looking for.

The etiquette of the game was introduced so that everyone, no matter their ability, would be able to play together without any kind of friction.

I am usually the first one to let a faster group or even a single player through as I don't like to be pressed, especially when I am playing with players who are not the fastest. In fact I play with quite a few young men who seem to take an age over everything, slowing the game down and putting pressure on me as I hate to hold anyone up.

I have never demanded to be let through, as I feel that it is encumbent on those in front to assess the situation themselves and hopefully make the right decision. Most of the time these days it is a waste of time as they become totally immersed in their own game and have no consideration for anyone else on the course. Something we just have to accept.

You can certainly play as a single player at my club, but you would have no standing and should not expect to be able to charge through the field upsetting everyone elses game, just because you are on your own. You may disagree with this, of course and I would not dream of attemting to change your view.

I don't hold grudges, Paul, so what has passed between us has already been forgotten.

Posted by Keith:

If a course decides that it will ignore the R&A Rules on solo players having equal standing now, isn't that in itself against the rules of golf? Obviously I appreciate that societies and competitions cannot let anyone play through, as this would interfere with their block movement around the course. No complaints from me there.

The rules and etiquette are two different things and the single player approval by the R & A comes under the etiquette section and it is entirely up to the club concerned as to whether they abide by this suggestion or not. In the main I would say that all private clubs will still have a single player having no standing.

Your suggestion that this etiquette statement by the R & A does not apply to all matches is defeating your own argument. Either single players have the right or they don't and no matter what the circumstances then they should be invited through.

Myself I don't think they should, I still stand in the no standing camp.

If this were a rule then it could not be waived, but it isn't, it is just something the R & A, in their infinite wisdom have declared should be incorporated into the etiquette of the game. Those clubs that don't agree, of which there will be many will not implement it, and the R & A can do nothing about it.

A properly run golf club does not even allow two ball matches to integrate with three/fourball matches for the same reasons of one group holding up the obviously faster group. There are allocated starting times for each kind of match and these are strictly adhered to, preventing all this trouble.

Of course in this day and age with all these new courses that have been built and are operated on a pay and play system, the object for the owners is money and how  much they can take in the till. They could not care less that a single or two ball is let out behind a series of fourballs causing totally unnecessary frustration for all.

Personally I never contribute to this situation as I know it will only spoil my own game.

I think he answered that with a yes earlier in the thread David.  Excuse the paraphrasing but something along the lines of not wanting to feel pressed, a feeling I don't like either. 

I must admit that I really don't mind a minor delay (couple of minutes per shot) as it means I relax and forget about the bad shots more easily. 

David, you know I would let him through, but that does not mean I think it right for the single player to have equal standing or this will just cause too many problems with people arguing on the course over priority, when it is totally unnecessary.

With this rule in place every single player will just insist on going through the field as he will claim priority and that IMO is not what was intended and bear in mind that if he does have priority then he is entitled to go through any society, which as you know will cause a lot of problems.

Keith, I agree with you entirely, I too do not want the hassle on the course and have come to accept that the new modern golfer just does not seem to have any go in them and that is why we are now out on the course for up to five hours at a time and unable to play 36 holes in one day, which used to be the norm.

I never drive into anyone, I wait my turn patiently and feel that I am not a hindrance to my fellow players. I encourage them all the time as I like to see peple produce quality golf shots, after all this is what gets us coming back all the time.

There are many societies that understand what is expected of them when they visit a private club, but unfortunately I see too many who, quite honestly, should not be on the course. We all had to start but in my days when I learned to play, my only option was the public course and until I had joined a club and had a handicap of 24, I would have been refused a green fee at any other club.

I realise times have changed and attitudes are completely different from my day, but we are all on the course together and we should be tolerant of each other. I will say however that crap golf can still be played fast, I do it all the time.

Keith, I am quite sure that there are many old duffers of my era who have slowed down as they have aged, but it only requires one player in the fourball to dither about and the rest get tarnished with the same brush.

No one plays a shot faster than me, I can assure you. I don't have and never have had a pre shot routine and those members of this forum who have played with me will substantiate that, I am sure.

I have never been against women members of a golf being in the bar but there are many clubs that do not allow it, probably because in these clubs the ladies have their own room strictly for themselves. I find that women are no problem playing with as they are usually very straight and off their tees always seem to drive further than me anyway.

Don't take any notice of David, he is a real ladies man.

I'm sorry that I opened this thread.

I play every game as a single because I have no golf friends yet in the UK, and no one in my office plays.  I live in central London, and take my clubs on the tube and am lucky to have found one course that I can get to fairly easily.

So what's wrong with single golfers?  

I don't think the number of golfers matters.  If you are not up with play and the group behind, regardless of number, is being held up, you should let them through.  If you are holding up a single but are keeping up with play then there is no onus on you to let them through.  I believe this is what John is alluding to when saying singles should not be able to barge through the field and I totally agree.  You should let through any group you are holding up if you are not up with play. 

On a slightly different subject, I notice your avatar (or should that be aviator?) has you down as a Packers fan Michael.  Given that I cannot escape the circus surrounding a certain ex-player of yours over here in the US at the moment, what are your thoughts on seeing Mr Favre in a Jets uniform?  Saw a 10 year old boy wearing a replica Jets jersey with 'Favre' and '4' on it in New York today and it just looks weird.  At least it's still green; the purple of Minnesota had he got his own way would have been too much.

Chris,

Slightly off topic, but realted to Favre and The Green Bay Packers....I grew up in Green Bay and my first job was working on the field and in the locker room during the Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr years and all the championships of that era.  Being 13 years old working for the Packers was unbelievable.  Both my father and uncle had worked for the Packers for 35 years.

It's a sin that Favre is wearing a different color uniform.  Sort of like trading Pele to me.  But somewhere in this mess, someone got really upset and it will be years before we ever know the truth, if ever. 

As for the comment above by Keith regarding "solo golfers have no standing"....if someone said that to me on a golf course, I'd probably break my Cameron over their thick skull.  Golfers who have that type of pompous attitude also don't have standing in my opinion and it would tell me a lot about what they are like in the business world...jerks to work with or for. 

And talk about slow play!  A few weeks ago, I'm playing as a solo at Trent Park.  These guys in front of me had an entire 2nd hole open in front of them and had yet to tee off when I got to the tee box.  Then they hit 4 shots into the river and start looking forever for their balls.  I stood on that box for a good 15 minutes.  The group behind me was 3 women and they had yet to join me on no.2!  The 3 in front were men and one of them was the club president from what the women told me later as they joined up with me.

The club president!!!  I've never seen such slow play in my life even from hackers who had no business being on a golf course.   But I'm sure they felt entiltled to play slow because they were playing "STRICTLY BY THE RULES" and were along with the club president.  Nothing like making a morning round at Trent Park go from 4 hours to 5.5 hours!  5.5 hours for an 8AM tee time is really sick.

I could have played through these idiots or joined them on the 2nd hole but nooooo....they just ignored me completey.  When the women finally caught up to me in the fairway of no. 2, they said they could not let me join them because they were in some stupid society competition.  I told them that they can play their game with me just as easily.  If they wanted me to go ahead and play on fine, but I the solo golfer gave two groups the chance to let me join them.

It took a full 30-40 minutes to play just one hole, no. 2 that day. Then to make matters worse, when I and the group behind me joined together, we finished no. 2 and these idiots in front of us were just teeing off on the par 3 3rd and their was no group within two holes of these morons playing with the club president.

Have not been back to Trent Park since.