How Many Shots Does Playing Through Cost You

When I started out 18 months ago playing through invariably cost me one or two shots as I duffed shots while the group that had let me play through looked on.

I am more confident now and can usually get a decent tee shot away if I am being offered to play through at the tee or if the group are waving me through form not too far up the fairway.

What does still get me and has happened twice in the last two weeks with the same group is being made to wait three or four holes before being offered the play through and then only being waved through once they have played two or three shots and are up the fairway beyond my longest driving distance.  I don't want to decline as they may not offer again but it usually results in two or three iffy shots just to get past them.

This question always raises concerns, Martin. Normally, a single player has no standing  whatsoever, which I agree with, as a properly constituted match does no want to have its own game, as well as those groups in front, interrupted by a single person playing round.

Personally I don't like being pressed by anyone, so I would let him/her play through, but on the occasions I have done this, it is usually a waste of time as those in front do not let the person thnrough.

Interesting points Martin and John.  I certainly agree that being pressed by the group behind is much more off putting than not being allowed through.  I play about 90% of my golf as a one ball and I am always very careful not to press anyone in front of me including not hitting the ball into the green until the group in front has moved well away from it.  I always find it annoying when I take one pace off a green and the first ball from the next match lands on it. 

I also do not think as a one ball that I have any automatic right to be asked to play through if the group in front is larger.  However if there is clear space of at least one hole in front of the group I am behind, I would expect them to ask me to play through at a convenient point. For example if I arrived at a tee when they were still there or if they were searching for a ball. 

I do not entirely agree with the single player having no standing John.  I can see no reference to this in the etiquette of golf so it could be only be established by a local rule.

My view is that on pay and play courses or private course that welcome visitors, if they are willing to take your money as a single player you should have equal standing but as I have said above not expect to play through just because you are a one ball. 

I have in the past, when playing on my own, let the group behind me play through when it is clear that they are playing faster than me even though they were a two ball.

Portuguese Golf Federation rules:

STANDING ON THE COURSE  . Competitors of official competitions. . 2 balls over 3 balls and 3 balls over 4 balls. A single player has no standing.

. Players without handicaps and the groups they play in have no standing.

. Players interrupting their round of golf lose all standings.

. Players must follow the established playing sequence of the course irrelevant of whether they start from de 1st or 10th tees. Players not following this sequence lose all standing.

. To avoid unnecessary delays players must let the following group through if:
. There is one clear hole ahead
. When searching for a ball
. Where the rules of standing are applicable

Chris, That all seems pretty clear and sensible although as people have stated above it is pretty pointless playing through if there is not at least one clear hole ahead or one group is delayed by searching for a ball.

The rule about people playing shorter rounds does make some sort of sense but is very difficult in reality. If you are playing 9 holes how do you know if the group behind you is playing 18 or 9.  I suppose at the first tee you might want to give way but there shouldn't be a clash if people stick to their tee times.  On all the 9 hole courses I've played they have had an alternating local rule on the first tee for front and back nine groups which presumably takes precedence.

Well, in all of my time playing this game, it has been that a single player has no standing and I have never played on my own anyway, as I would feel it is an intrusion to make the group in front feel self concious of me being there.

The rule may be a new R & A decision but I am quite sure that at proper members clubs you will find that a single player will still have no standing. In fact go to some clubs and you will find that only two balls are allowed, period.

As far as I am aware, this was never in the rules of golf but considered a part of the etiquette of the game.

Courses these days, cause these problems themselves by mixing different size groups, i.e. allowing two balls out when the majority of those palying are in threes and fours.

I can't believe any group of golfers would keep a single golfer behind them because they think "they have no standing" or because there is another group ahead.

I have come across these ignorant (usually senior members) idiots on the odd occasion when doing weekday rounds.

There is no good excuse for it other that pig-headedness.

Not at your own club I assume Tony, but don't let that stop you from having a dig at the Seniors.

I sometimes play alone on Friday afternoons as I only do a half day.  If the weather is nice I sometimes just fancy a knock and think that 9 holes is better practice than going down the range.  As I don't belong to a club, I turn up at the local muni and pay my dues.  I ask if they want me to play front or back (the back 9 just after lunch is often quiet) and if they want me to join up with another group I do but unless it's busy they just send me out. 

When I'm out on my own, I tend to play two balls and take two different approaches to the game, usually one 'gung-ho' ball and one conservative.  The rewards generally differ from hole to hole and this helps me to improve my course management and decision making. 

J P, making comments misquoting what I have said, does not make you right and me wrong, unless of course this is current Rotella thinking.

This is what you said: You said so yourself that you had no idea and that you think playing by oneself is "ignorant" and is against the etiquette of the game of golf.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to point me to the post where I supposedly said this.

This is what I said: I have never played on my own anyway, as I would feel it is an intrusion to make the group in front feel self concious of me being there.

So may I suggest that you unsadden yourself before you have a heart attack.

May I remind you that golf is a social game and when I come across anyone who has no wish to join up then I usually tell them that they will never make a real golfer and perhaps they would be better off finding a game they can play on their own.

Hi David, on the verge of packing it all in. my trolley broke again today, so I had to use one of the clubs pull carts and using that nearly killed me, I lasted for 14 holes, had managed 30 points up till then, but could go no further, absolutely shattered.

My knee is getting worse and walking is now very painful and slow.

He had made a dig and it would help if when commenting on something, it might be better to refer to the comment when addressing me, as I don't have these inbuilt qualities of a mind reader that you appear to have. Back to Rotella again.

Personally I have already stated that I don't like them up my backside and have always called them through, your memory is not up to scratch J P as you do not appear to be able to store what other people have posted.

I might add at this point that I have always been a member of a club (Not counting my current one, as that is just a money making machine where I can honestly say that single players just never existed. This is a new phenomena to me as are many things that go on in this so called world of golf these days.

May I suggest you pop along to Hunstanton, on the Norfolk coast and attempt to play as a single. The permitted format only at this club is two balls, take it or leave it. Burnham and Berrow, another famous course in Somerset has the same ruling.

Most clubs these days could not organise anything and should not be allowed to. Proper clubs do not mix two balls, with three and fourballs, they each have their own allocated starting times which vary depending on what time of the day it is.

A golf club as opposed to a golf course has every right to stipulate whatever rules it deems fit to enable the club to function for the benefit of its members, after all, it is they who pay for this privilege.

Perhaps you would care to answer this question for me, hopefully truthfully. This has happened to me on many an occasion in recent years. I have been given a tee time as a two ball immediately following a society of perhaps eight fourballs. I never expected a call through, even though I was held up for the whole round, as it would have impinged on their competition, but you, judging by what you have been saying, would expect tp be called through and through and through. Surprise, surprise they were all very young players, not a senior in sight.

John P

"May I remind you that golf is a social game and when I come across anyone who has no wish to join up then I usually tell them that they will never make a real golfer and perhaps they would be better off finding a game they can play on their own"

I agree golf is a social game & look foraward to the banter & company on the weekend but if we are to take a lead from the pro's you don't very often see them interact with their playing partners which makes you think if they would prefer to play on their own??

My course doesn't allow single players over the weekend until after 4pm but this is usually relaxed in the week.

I too play on my own when leading up to a monthly medal & want to make a few notes on yardage, hazards etc but wouldn't want to play on my own very often. I mean when you hit that drive straight down the middle or hit the wedge shot 2 inches from the pin you want someone to witness it.

I remember playing on my own many years back & hit my 2nd shot to an elevated par 4 with an 8 iron, when I got there I couldn't find the ball until I decided to look in the hole & there it was, the problem was there was nobody to witness it & nobody would believe me

John.

If I was just having a dig at seniors, John, I would just call them coffin dodgers or something constructive like that, there are plenty "mature" gentlemen who have, either invited me to join them or encoraged me to play through but generally if I get held up it is usually behind senior members. 

So if applying to join at C Huntstantonare the requirements ;

• Old
• Miserable
• 2 golfing friends, no more no less
• No female golfer friends
• Long socks.

Ding Ding......

You are entitled to your opinion, Jamie Armstrong, as is Ding Ding Flood. please don't be afraid to contribute more freely now you have finally come out of your shell.

Hunstanton would be wasted on you. Save your money.

The thing is Jamie, I am not wrong, having had more experience than you at this game.

I just did not think it was worthwhile attempting to answer your angry and ridiculous comments in any detail, as I had no wish to indulge in an argument with someone who has not got a clue what I am like, but is jumping out of the woodwork trying to get attention with his first post.

May I suggest you find likeminded golfers up there in Newcastle and leave us to play the game as we have done for the past half century.

You will never be able to intimidate me, Jamie, I am too long in the tooth to be affected by fringe exhibitionism.

Have a nice day.

Wow, what a bitter and twisted person you are, Jamie, I must have hit a nerve. May I suggest you spend more of your time learning the game and its traditions before attempting to inflict your version on the unsuspecting public at large.

If you have something relevant to say, then say it, if not, I suggest you slink back into your little hiding place. I can take your kind of idiotic responses all day.

J P, I do not have to change with the times unless of course I feel that some changes are better than what went before. I am fortunate in that I know what went before and what I see is a dumbing down of everything that was good in the game. Because of your age you have never had the opportunity to witness it, so speak from a current perspective type of view, which is dangerous.

In fifty years time you will be the one defending your position against the new generation of the time, that is how it goes.

That is the beauty of forums, Jamie, everyone can say what they like and no one has to agree if they don't wish to.

You have said nothing that I agree with so we are poles apart in our thinking.

I have not attempted to change your view to mine as your view is of no interest to me whatsoever. If and when you can come up with something that is debateable, as opposed to just attacking me because of what I have said to others, then perhaps we could have a nice discussion and an exchange of views, but you do not seem the type.

May I suggest that as I am not worth the bother, that you stick to what you said and go and find someone else to have a little rant with. 

Interesting comments, J P although, as you said, we are on opposite sides of the spectrum in our opinion on whether the game has improved with all of the current changes.

It is not a question of harping back to the good old days (Even though they were) but what has really happened is that golf has been priced out of the reach of the youngsters when compared to my time and most certainly there are many new players who are finding it difficult to pay the exhorbitant green fees being asked for these days and even for inferior courses.

I used to be an Artisan member at St. Georges Hill, Weybridge, in the early sixties and my annual subscription for a course that is easily in the top six inland courses in this country was a mere £2 per annum. The only restrictions we had was that we had to be clear of the first tee by 0730 hrs on the weekends, but as our clubhouse was in the woods by the second tee, that is where we started our rounds.

The USGA spec for courses which is being bandied about as the best thing since sliced bread is another fallacy, I'm afraid, I have yet to play one that has been well designed to cater for all groups of players other than the Professional and with greens of the calibre of a course built on golf course land as opposed to farmland. Belton Woods which we have just played in the North South match is a classic case of this.

Golf for the masses, you say, another fallacy with Drivers fetching anything up to £300 and modern players assuming that for that price they get guarantees of 300 yds dead straight, then finding out it just does not work like that.

I was a truck driver for my entire working life but I never had a problem gaining membership at a good golf club, so that knocks the elite tag out of the window, don't you think. Golf was always a sport for all, as we all learned to play at the local public courses and progressed from there.

If I could play the game now, I would be at a proper golf club, instead of where I am now, which is a course under the Crown Golf umbrella, that has no interest in making it a golf club, in the true sense of the word. My club handicap of 16 will never move up or down as there are no club competitions for five day members, yet I play two competitive rounds every week in the Seniors roll-up where winners are treated harshly with handicap cuts, I now have to play off thirteen in this group.

Perhaps you could tell me why you think that traditional values are old hat now. Do you think that Tennis is better for the scruffy way they dress on court now, or that Cricket is better because they are all dressed in garish colours, I don't.

I don't know how old you are J P, but you most certainly are young enough never to have witnessed the time when this country changed for the worse, just like my children, who argue with me, think I am completely out of touch of the real world, just like you are doing.

I have not got long to go, but I do know that I was lucky enough to have had, what I consider, the best years in recent history.

I agree entirely, Wayne, a long way to go indeed.

Why on earth should I be nice to you, Steven Watmore, when you make a remark concerning my abilities at this present time without even thinking that possibly in my younger days I could play the game.

My little knowledge, as you so graciously put it, was good enough to win a major amateur tournament, represent the counties of Essex (Once) Surrey(Five Times) and Somerset for a more than a few years and attain and keep a scratch handicap for four years and one handicap for 8 years, which allowed me to play in events like The Brabazon Trophy (Something you have probably never even heard of) The Golf Illustrated Gold Vase, The Lytham Trophy, as well as events like The West of England Open Amateur Strokeplay championship over 72 holes and many other regional events, all played off scratch, that required a maximum of 1 handicap even to get into the ballot. You are way out of your depth young man. The mere fact that I am currently off 14.5 is down to things outside my control, i.e. not very good health and declining years. Even at 71 years old I appear to be better than you.

I have probably forgotten more than you currently know about this game, old age you know.

Being older and wiser goes a long way to ensuring that us older ones help to maintain the traditions of this fine game.

If I could see the standard of play being improved by the so called advances being made both in course design, teaching and technology, then perhaps I might agree with you, but I don't know if you are aware that in my day no one had a handicap higher than 24, yet I am now expected to play and give shots to men off 36 handicap. That is a dumbing down no matter which angle you look at it.

J P, so you are now bringing the professional game into the equation, where in actual fact I agree with you that this part of the game has made tremendous strides forward in the number of different countries now playing the game.

Augusta is not the best club to quote in this context IMO, It was a private members club that set up an open invitation golf tournament and it was their prerogative to invite whoever they want to. Can you imagine Augusta, with its incredible reputation spreading itself open to the general public. It just would not work. I don't agree that it should be classed as a major when it is not an open competition, but that is only my opinion.

Your quote: now more accessible to minority groups and less privileged families than it ever has been.

There may be some showcase instances of this, but please tell me how the normal person on normal average wages can afford to play golf anywhere abroad. Green Fees have gone through the roof everywhere and the high fees at the more prestigious clubs are only because they wish to keep the element that has no respect for the game or its traditions off the course.

John I think your now getting confused - max handicap for men is 28 - 36 is for the women.

Not in our Seniors Roll-up it isn't, J P and that is what I am playing in these days.

So you have to be rich to respect the game and traditions of golf?

No, J P, you have to be rich to play Wentworth and the like, as you well know it is probably the rich that have made this situation worse for the enthusiastic beginner. One only has to witness the behaviour of these, so called rich yuppies, to realise that perhaps the clubs have got it wrong and that they should be encouraging those who seriously want to play the game, rather than encourage those who will spend money, like it has gone out of fashion

Having played Kissimmee golf club myself, you will have to agree that it is not exactlly the best around.

You are obviously very comfortably off to think that everyone can afford what you can. Typical response from those who are able to do what they want, when they want. Perhaps when you are a pensioner on a fixed income your attitude might change, but I doubt it.

I too enjoy every minute I am playing, Dave, you are not unique in this at all, surprised that you think that we players who like to maintain some kind of balance should be taking up another sport.

I have used it twice now, Wayne, and yesterday I only had one three putt. I will have to get the grip thinned down but I really am impressed with it on short putts as I holed out consistently from within three feet, a distance that I was prone to slipping up on with my j blade.

I feel it is only going to get better, the more I use it, I was surprised how I managed to get the weight right most of the time with the long putts, only one was a dismal effort.

As it happend, Jonathan, Belton Woods was value for money because of the fact that we had a special golfshake package, two rounds of golf evening meal and Bed and Breakfast. I was trying to say,initially, that this type of course seems to be the norm these days outside of private members clubs and a green fee is usually not worth the money.

Having been a good player yourself, you will know that to score well it is imperative to have a putting surface that is true and fast.

I still feel that golf is way too expensive these days, or I may be just completely out of touch with the relationship between earnings and cost of the game. I could never justify £300 for a golf club.

I will look after it, Wayne and it will always remind me of the generous gesture you made.

Golf for me is not expensive, currently, Dave, as I am a member of a club, but I certainly cannot afford to be splahing out £30 for a game on Saturday and Sunday every week, which is what it would cost to play at my club paying green fees.

You certainly have the right idea about buying your equipment, I do the same myself, although the trolley I bought on ebay has given me nothing but headaches.

Look forward to you coming down, Wayne, I can put you up should you need it.

Can I have my two'penneth here?

Etiquette - The rules all revolve around common sense and courtesy.  If you damage the course (divot, footmarks in sand or pitch mark), repair it.  It helps keep the course in better condition for everyone, including you.  If you are holding someone up, let them go through, regardless of how many are in the group - you wouldn't block the road by driving slow would you?  If someone is playing alone, ask if they would like to join up - they may have been let down by their playing partner and be glad of the company.  If they say no, that does not make them ignorant, it just indicates a preference. 

Dress code - Footballers have a dress code, boxers have a dress code, even night clubs have a dress code.  Why should golf not have one?  Whilst there is no need for jacket and tie (either on the course or in the club house), smart casual attire (tailored trousers or shorts, shirt or t-shirt with a collar, definitely no jeans or football shirts) is appropriate and golf shoes should be worn at all times on the course.  Dress code for club house and course should be the same.  Modern fashions and dress sense should be allowed as long as they do not conflict with the general intent of the dress code (socks do not need to be pulled up to the knees but t-shirts with large print offensive slogans on should not be worn)

Lady players - Same rules and privileges as the men.  Sex shouldn't come into it, and that includes the handicap - 28 max.  Whilst I agree that women GENERALLY have less power than men, this is why there are ladies tees and they take account of this.   

Private clubs - Should be open for anyone to join subject to maximum membership and agreement to abide by reasonable local rules.  Local rules may not be used to discriminate against sex, colour, religion or age and should not be used as a means of exclusion except where a minimum ability is considered necessary to make it around the course.  If a private club allows visitors to play, they should have the same rights and privileges on the course as members, with the exception of members having the ability to book tee times before visitors as a perk. 

Munis/pay and play courses – These are the spawning grounds of new golfers.  Everyone has to start somewhere and learn the game.  These beginners will have sets of Dunlops from Sports World and will be making new bunkers with every swing.  They don’t mean to play badly and hold you up, and probably don’t want to.  If you are intolerant of people aspiring to be as good as you, do not play these courses.  If you add up how much you pay annually for these courses, you could probably afford to join one of the local clubs anyway.  

I'd like to think I am the voice of reason in clamouring debate here.  Many of you have met me.  I do not play golf for glory or reward (obviously!), I play because I enjoy the game, the walk, the people (mostly anyway), the banter and the fact that no matter who else is on the course, the only one I am really challenging is myself.  Golf is a pastime and it should be enjoyed  by ALL.  The rules (written and unwritten) are there to make it enjoyable and fair for EVERYONE and everyone should be given equal opportunity to enjoy this wonderful game that charges our emotions such. 

I await my dressing down. 

If I had posted that, J P, even though it is true, I would have got into another argument.

I am only trying to build up the forum, David, can't you see that.

This thread has strayed a little from my original intent but has probably gone into more interesting territory.

Great post Chris I agree with practically every point you made.  Just a word of caution which occurred to me.  Its great to see innovations that open access to more and more players but it is important not to throw the baby out with the bath water.  I am pleased that the game still has an etiquette rather than a list of health and safety rules.  Traditions do need challenging and changing to keep the game alive but the sense of history and rituals are also part of the games appeal.