Dress Code in the Club House.

All,

What is your opinion of the relaxing od dress code within the club house? The reson being is time is changing an new members are hard to come by but one thing that seems to stand out is dress code.

Do you think a casual dress code should now be accepted?

Regards

David.

As long as it dosnt extend to Tracksuits etc which seems to be perfectly suitable for the course these days, much to my horror.

Why dont courses actually enforce their dress codes these days

Oh Oh,

I can feel a BIG can of worms being open here!!!!.

John.

I have played at clubs where the members clearly want and enjoy a strict dress code. I have also played at clubs where a more relaxed style is the order of the day. I don't think there is a problem. If you do not like the code at any club, don't use the clubhouse or if a member, use the rules to encourage enough like minded fellows to push for a change. My club is casual and I like it that way.

Personally, I think standards have dropped in respect of golf just as they have in everything in this life today.

What you have to remember that it was not so long ago that the only way to play this game initially was by going to a public course. That is where I started.

Getting membership of a club was not easy and took time and most certainly no one was admitted until they could play the game, don't forget the highest handicap one could have was 24 and the game would be far better IMO if we returned to this.

Golf membership at a well established older club is nowhere near as expensive as these new corporate courses, springing up everywhere, built to the crappy USGA specifications, which are not a patch on good old English grass and totally unsuited to our weather.

J Flood.........I was thinking the same and seen your post...

NWOT.........

Chav bottoms, ipod, mobile phone, one earing got to be the way........

NWOT..........

I wouldnt want to spoil the game for anyone, there is room for everyone in this sport for sure. I would just prefer to play on courses that uphold the traditional values of the game. If this does not interest you then we will likely be playing at different venues, so be it.

There are hundreds of courses that will allow pretty much any dress, standard and behaviour all they want is your money and ask nothing else in return. You will not go wanting for a game whatever you dress like, there are less and less venues catering for my tastes on my budget so i appear to be in the minority and am the unfortunate one i guess. 

It seems to me, Richard, that it is you who has an attitude.

Your are confusing good manners, traditional values and personal pride as snobbery, when it is you, yourself, who is acting the snob, by referring to those of us who like to dress properly, conduct ourselves in the manner we expect from others at a golf club and have an affinity for this wonderful game that has so far eluded you.

It has nothing to do with fine gear at all, Richard, and you know it. Shirts with collars and anything but jeans is fine as long as it is clean.

Our seniors roll-up is 1000 hrs and our, course, in its wisdom tends to shove people off right up to this time causing us to wait, in itself not a problem, but when one witnesses players with shirts hanging outside their trousers and swings that are never likely to make contact with the ball, it does become frustratiing knowing that we are faced with at least five hours of purgatory.

I am totally amazed at how knackered young people seem to be these days, I have never witnessed such slow walking between shots in all my life. I am nearly 71, have a very dodgy knee, as well as a hip that pleases iteself what to do and a back that cannot turn, yet I can still hold my position on a golf course.

You are paranoid if you really believe that you are being looked down upon, unless of course you are giving reason for anyone to do so. Only you will know.

Richard,

If people cannot really afford the fine gear you are refering to then I suspect that they also wouldn't want / be able to pay the green fees at some of these 'snobby' courses you refer to.

I think if visitors want to play at a private course then they should abide to ALL the rules that the members also have to abide by.

Mick, I think once your handicap becomes lower you too will also moan about slow play as you will find that you will get around the golf course a lot quicker. I know this was certainly the case with me.

I once got told in the summer that I couldn't wear tailored shorts because I had the wrong colour socks on? I had 2 choices,change my socks or go home. It was a lovely summers day & I wanted to play golf so the choice was easy for me.

There's my two penneth.

John.

Never seen Ian Poulter playing in jeans, shirt hanging out or trainers so your more than welcome to dress like him althouth it will cost you a bob or too.

Ian poulters garbs are more than respectable IMO. Although if you dress like him you probably wanna play like him just for safe measure

Ricahrd,

..or the visitors can respect the rules of the course they are visiting??

This applies not just to golf courses but religions, schools & the workplace where they all require some form of 'uniform' to be worn in order to enter, attend or work.

I find it very strange that you object very strongly to these courses that have these rules & yet you still seem to want to play them?? Surely you don't enjoy your round if your expecting someone to compain about your dress code or style of play etc.

Why not find a course which meets your criteria & play there??

John.

Mick,

I agree the sock ruling was ridiculous but it was there rule & as I said I had 2 choices.

John.

Would you expect to play Sunday league football in Doc Martins and donkey jacket?  No, the ref wouldn't let you.  Would you go swimming in jeans and sweatshirt?  No, you wouldn't be able to and I doubt they would let you in the pool.  So why should playing the sport of golf not reasonably request some standard attire in which to play the game? 

I agree that some clubs may take it too far to the point of being awkward (christ, what colour socks were you wearing John!), but is it too much to ask for a shirt with a collar, tailored trousers and no jeans, tracksuit bottoms or football shirts?  I don't think so.  It doesn't have to cost a fortune to buy the clothes.  I bought my first golf trousers from Sports World for under £8.00 and you can get a polo shirt from there for a couple of quid.  A pair of jeans costs more than that. 

As regards etiquette, it's a very simple case of trying to maintain good manners and consideration for others in a world where both are sadly slipping away at an alarming rate.  I don't think that is too much to ask. 

I agree Mick & the pro in the shop was very courteous & even offered to borrow me a pair if needed. If anyone is interested I was wearing brown socks & they needed to be white.

Goodnight.

I don't blame them for not letting you on the course if you were wearing brown socks.  I hope they called the fashion police as well

Looks like we have a dual personality in Mr Briggs and Mr Hudson, both of them talk a load of rubbish.

That would be age discrimination though Chris and this politically correct country would crucify ya mate...

WRAOT.................

It's nothing to do with age Chris, it's about mindset.  You spend a lot of time at the course and as you say, you can tell by the way people dress how they will behave on the course.  I don't have a problem with a polo shirt that has a football or rugby team crest on it, but I don't think a standard football or rugby shirt is acceptable.  If you can afford £100 for a set of clubs, plus £15 plus green fees to play, you can afford an extra £10 for a pair of slacks and a polo shirt. 

I used to play every week with a guy at the local muni and he always turned up in jeans (I didn't).  One week we decided we would play a better quality course and again he turned up in jeans saying he "didn't realise it would be a problem".  Result?  He was told to go home and change or buy some trousers from the pro shop.  He didn't have time to go home so it cost him £55 for the trousers as they were the only one they had in his size.  He wore them every game after that and his missus was not impressed. 

As I said in my previous post, most other sports have a standard set of clothing to be worn while playing, why should golf be any different. 

Never judge a golfer by his cloth.....

Versus

When in the league of gentlemen dress accordingly..

Always a good debate...

NWOT.........

I can only agree that there shoud be a dress code on the course and in club houses. Of course sometimes this can be taken to far (brown socks instead of white!!!), but as mentioned before its the uniform of golf and should be adhered to.

 Also price should never come into the argument, as with anything you can buy a pair of truosers under £10 or you can pay £120 for a pair, its down to your own personal tastes and pocket. But to say that its to expensive is a nonsense as for the price of an avarage green fee (£25) you can buy all you need, including shoes! Ok they are not going to be top names but if cost is an argument then top names are not an issue.

I do however think that the new fashion in golf clothing somtimes blurs the barrier and as Mr Poulter (as mentioned above) has been fined for bending the dress club rules. Even garments that have been labled as Golf clothes may bend the rules of your club/local course.

As for the mention that the feeling that you are being "looked down On", im sure that this happens as it does in any part of life, especally if you are breaking the law or code of the establishment. But what it shouldnt mean is that the  dress code should be ignored as a protest to the establishment, because if anything this will cause a more hostile reaction to you.

I think the bottom line is that dress codes are a part of golf, and should be accepted when you decide to partake in the game.

Rant over 

Danny 

Danny,

My comment of "..or the visitors can respect the rules of the course they are visiting??" was referring to Richard's comment that clubs that enforce a strict dress code should 'relax'.

Why should they relax it it all the members adhere to it & most visitors respect it??

If you don't like it play somewhere else.

You wouldn't expect to play county cricket in jeans & t-shirt or Wimbledon in Bermuda shorts.

If you really feel the need to play golf in jeans, t-shirts & trainers then there are vasts amounts of muni courses that will gladly take your money & let you play.

John. 

Everyone should play in bermuda shorts and flip flops.  Whilst wearing brown socks 

And I'm over 50 and don't look too bad in shorts.

I was tempted with speedos but thought it was a step too far David.  Could you imagine Waynetta in a g......  No, I'm stopping before the image forms. 

If wearing open toed sandals, you have to wear biege socks pulled up to just below the knee.  And a white belt. 

Stuff it, let's make the North v South a mandatory Bad Taste Fancy Dress event. 

Mr Hudson, please refrain from shouting. If you are going to address me, please try and get my name right and it would also be nice if you could rewrite the sentence again, as it does not make any sense whatsoever. Calm down and think before you write, then you might make yourself coherent.

Mike Briggs, you are correct, this is a forum and you are entitled to say what you like, as am I, and If I feel your comments are bullshit then I will say so.

You cannot upset me as i am too long in the tooth having listened to so much crap in my life that it completely washes over me.

My view, so that you will know where I stand, is that golf is a game for gentlemen and gentlemen always dress appropriately.

Mike Briggs, you are correct, this is a forum and you are entitled to say what you like, as am I, and If I feel your comments are bullshit then I will say so.

You cannot upset me as I am too long in the tooth having listened to so much crap in my life that it completely washes over me.

My view, so that you will know where I stand, is that golf is a game for gentlemen and gentlemen always dress appropriately.

Chris, did you have to start that description?  Can't get it out of my head now.

The problem with the N v S being a bad taste fancy dress event is it would actually be difficult to tell if some people were participating or not....

Not a shorts person myself and what I see in the summer is a total mess. Very few have tailored shorts and long socks, which are the normal rules in the golf clubs that I frequent.

Normally where I can get the best view....

NWOT..............

Mike Briggs, the game is for gentlemen, something you obviously are not.

You would not last five minutes at my club, sad to say.

Perhaps it would be in your interest to spend more time practising than on this forum.

Sorry Tim.  Try not to imagine it in red satin either as it really won't help you keep your tea down.  Unless it is the women's attire we are now talking about. 

We used to have nights out when all of your outer wear had to come from a charity shop and cost not more than £15 in total.  Some great nights out, some great outfits and I acquired the most comfortable pair of shoes I have ever owned.  Unfortuantely they were dodgy white slip-ons so I couldn't wear them at any other time. 

This is all getting too heated and personal.  Opinions, like people, vary and one man's meat is another man's poison.  It is up to the individual club to decide what is appropriate for them.  If they wish to maintain a certain standard then I'm fine with that and will happily abide by their rules (even if it means changing my brown socks!).  If they are just interested in getting people out on the course, then standards will be relaxed to encourage as many people as possible.  This is typically the difference between a private course and a muni and if you have a firm belief in the dress code then this will drive you to use one or the other. 

MicK Briggs, you are too thin skinned, it is you who started it and I respond in kind. If you don't like it, then tough.

Richard Hudson, my pleasure.

There is nothing in this world of golf to get a person more hot under the collar it seems than a discussion about dress codes.

I read last year's debate with huge interest. Most of the time falling about laughing as people got more and more heated about what should and should not be worn on a golf course and how this then relates to a person's attitude to life, the universe and everything. Unbelievably this thread has gone exactly the same way! Almost word for word some of it, although with a few different protagonists and antagonists this time.

The last thread was deleted (I think by Wayne as it had actually started as a discussion on something completely different) and went on for months. Mr Howell what have you started. John P, what have you got yourself into again...you do have a wonderful knack of rubbing people up the wrong way (particularly on this subject) and please don't take this the wrong way.

For what it's worth my opinion on dress code is...

When I started playing I did not enjoy the dress code snobbery around golf, but as I started playing more and more, I began to appreciate that certain standards are expected. I now think that any clothes that enable you to play the game are acceptable at cheaper, municipal, pay and play course that has no dress code etc. but when you pay more money to play better courses then the dress code has to be respected. Besides which, after a while you realise the whole trousers (can't stand the word slacks) and polo shirt garb is by far the most comfortable and convenient way to dress on a golf course anyway.

There you go, my two pennies worth...back to enjoying the rants of reasonable men on the plusses and minuses, whys and wherefores of a nice pair of trousers and shirt! I’m sure many a wife would love to know that there husbands are spending time on the web arguing about clothes and shoes!

Apologies in advance if any of this caused offence ;-)

I am sorry to you two, I thought I was talking to golfers, but having looked at your stats there is no way you can be called that. Like I said, spend more time on practising than being on here mouthing off about something you know very little about.

So I suppose you think you  are the only ones to have ever worked full time, or raised a family, not forgetting we had to do it without any government help, unlike today. 

I did play today, but that is the first game in three weeks and what I do with my retirement time is not really any of your business. I am slo playing tomorrow and Friday. I don't play week-ends as I have no wish to spend five hours on a golf course behind players who have no respect for others playing the game. Only today, our fourball was stuck behind the slowest two ball I have ever encountered, both young men, but walked as if they were geriatrics.

Regarding the good old days, as you mentioned, they were much better times than what is happening now and what is only going to get worse in the future.

I have no douibt that if you get your wish, you will be playing golf in jeans and T shirts.

Every thing evolves including dresscode, years ago Bobby Jones and Henry Cotten were playing in plus fours, tweed suits , and shirts with collor and ties. it will no doubt continue to evolve but jeans and footy shirts would be a step too far.

p.s i'm an old git, but did'nt see henry or bobby, only photo's.----don't know about John P.

You'll have noticed by now, Mick & Richard, that even golf clubs in cyber space can attract those who may occasionally be driven to shout down, bad-mouth and try to isolate anyone who doesn't happen to share their own narrow views about what constitutes etiquette and appropriate behaviour & attire in relation to the playing of this beautiful game.

As some members freely confess little respect for others who disagree with them, unfortunately you'll find that reasoned argument won't always wash very much around here. You are the latest in a long list of members who have occasionally attempted to engage in friendly forum debate but who have just attracted unwarranted hostility for your trouble. Just like in real golf, it's probably best just to look on with incredulity at the antics of some and rejoice that you don't see as much of this sort of attitude at the more enlightened courses that the majority of us try to play at these days.

Hope to see more of your contributions to discussions in the forums again in the future.

By the way, well done John Standing for trying to restore a sense of peace, order & propriety to proceedings.

Richard,

is there any reason why you keep posting the same post twice??

are you hittin the refresh button after posting your thread??

John.

I  hope Mick and Richard are going to the N vs S golf comp. to continue this debate....

Thank goodness they will be on your side, Tony. Looks as though if you recruit them with their very high handicaps it may help you.

Quote from Mike Briggs:

i've played golf for the last 20 years and i've been held up by young golfers, old golfers, bad golfer's and a lot of bad ettiqete, funny enough i never seem to moan about the old golfer's holding me up

If I had spent 20 years playing this game to your standard then I would have shot myself by now. Like I said, what you play cannot be called golf.

I cannot see how someone who claims to be super intelligent cannot apply this same thinking to improving ones play. You are obviously lacking something in your make-up.

Now call on all your supporters, who I note, cannot play the game either and lets see what you can come up with.

Bobby Jones and Henry Cotton were in the era after jackets and plus fours. I have played 9 holes with Henry Cotton in Sotogrande (Now Valderrama)and he wore trousers and polo shirt.

Hope this has made you all angry.

Does any one have a feeling of de ja vue?

Lost that one Richard buddy.

Peter is Yorkshire and his post don't seem provocative....

NWOT.......

If we were to look at this from another angle that everyone can understand it might turn the light bulb on for a few people.

PUBS & CLUBS

All over the country there are differing brands with their own pricing structure & in some cases a dress code.

Are we entitled to question pubs with higher prices??? The answer is YES....BUT does the pub have to change to accomodate this?? The answer is NO. If you don't want to pay £4 for a pint then there are plenty of pubs that will offer it at £1-£2

The pub has stuctured it's pricing towards the clientele that it is trying to attract, this also applies to clubs / restaurants who have a dress code.

You wouldn't want to take your missus to the ritz for a special occasion only to be seated next to a load of blokes downing pint after pint wearing jeans & t-shirt.

HOUSES / STREETS

How many of you would object if a load of gippo's parked a caravan at the end of your street??? There argument could be that why should you be able to live in a nice area & not them?? 

So you see golf courses are not alone in this, it happens all over the country but the good thing about this country is that have the freedom of choice.

Choose to play a private course but you must respect their rules.
Choose to play a muni & expect to play 4-5 hr rounds, expect to see people wearing jeans & t-shirts.

Thanks

John. 

Quite a good analogy, John, bu the point I am attempting to make is that this subject would not have come up, not so many years ago, as everyone had respect for the game and its traditions. Also no one had a handicap higher than 24 and received only threequarters of that in a matchplay situation. This meant of course that players had to learn the game before they were allowed to affect the games of established players.

Davina,

Your probably right but in perspective some of the non-members do cause damage to fairways, greens & tees by not respecting the course etiquitte. This in turn could increase members fees etc.

But point taken.

John. 

John F,

Great analogy, wish I'd thought of it.

John P,

I greatly respect your opinion and views, but I feel you are turning the discussion into personal attacks.  I know you well enough to know this is only because you are passionate about your golf, but some of us have high handicaps becasue we either cannot get the time on the course to improve, are just starting out or are quite simply not co-ordinated enough.  To really learn how to play this game means we have to get off the range and onto the course where we start with a high handicap and play municipals as we don't want to pay high green fees to frustrate ourselves and others.  Eventually we get to the point where we recognise that our game has outgrown the weekend warrior courses and we want play somewhere we can appreciate the course as well as the game.  This is generally when our handicap has dropped into the teens and we join a club. 

I want to improve, I'm currently having lessons to get me there, but until that time comes I don't want to be playing private courses where my less than adequate ability spoils the enjoyment for the members.  This means staying on the muni and playing alongside those who have no desire to get any better than they are as they play 'for a laugh' and therefore don't care enough about those around them.  I'll grit my teeth and put up with it until the time comes when my game justifies playing somewhere better. 

Speaking of everybody has to start somewhere and playing muni's until you are good enough 

I read a statistic somewhere (think it was Todays Golfer) stating that only 10% of golfers ever break 100. Anybody know if this is true or if not what the true figure is?

I think that the 10% figure is true, certainly in the States - and of that 10% only 10% break 80 and 10% of them break 70.  Bet most of them wear slacks....

Regarding the statistics, I haven't a clue what the current situation is, but I do know that at one of my previous clubs in Somerset, with a membership of 600 that the highest handicap was 24. This means that every player in the club broke 100.

Which also goes to show that there has been no real improvement in equipment over the last 40 years.

That's as clear as mud Dave.

John P is actually quite cuddly in real life.

I agree, Danny, clear as mud. Overweight, maybe, cuddly, I don't think so.

Wayne, I thought it was yours. What a memory eh?

I wonder how long this thread will get. I wouldn't mind betting that it crops up again from time to time throughout 2008.

Perhaps we should use it to report crimes against the dress code seen on the course throughout the year. Or even just fashion crimes on the golf course in general as plenty of official golf clobber would/should not be worn down the high street without turning a few heads.

Ian Poulter has a lot to answer...

P.S. I think I better mention that I was forced (Bandit reasons) to wear the top in my picture! Bright orange doesn't go with my skin colouring...

Sorry about taking it off topic, i had 2 reasons for this

Firstly, did this thread ever stay on topic?

secondly, it is clear if the responses are anything to go by that 90% of golfers are either

(a) Sh*t at golf

or

(b) Having a laf

however, it is now understandable why the respectable players money is not as well regarded as the casual player. Because they are clearly in the minority. As with everything bottom line is all that matters and this is why traditionalists are not catered for. By the way i might have broken 100 but im still in catagory (a) most of the time

John P, i would expect that a higher percentage of golfers at a club which enforces a minimum handicap to have broken 100. You have to meaure the entire population of any subject to determine your distribution, pre selection gives you a very different result.

ok gotta put my 5cents in on this........

I think clubs should lighten up a little, after all its just golf (did i really say that !!) what difference does it make what anyones wearing ?? at the end of the day they are ejoyiong themselves, their in the club spending money and they can relax....thats the way it should be shouldnt it.........

Without trying to cover the same ground, the way that i perseive the dress code (wether on the course or in the clubhouse) is that in ensures a standard of clothing and to avoid situations where members or guests are challenged with regard to the proper golfing attire. As lets face it when we all took up the sport we all knew that there is a dress code for golf so this shouldnt come as a shock that it get enforced!

now in days gone by this might have been used as a tool to inforce eliteism however (as mentioned a few times above) due to the fact that you can buy suitable golfing clothes for next to nothing now this cannot be the case. And ive never heard of a place refusing customers due to the wrong Brand being worn!

Of course there are a few extreme cases, wrong colour socks or to many/not enough pleats in trousers(this happened in america to a friend of mine), but this happens in life away from the course. i.e not being able to dine in a resturant wearing a shirt and tie and as a jacket is the dress code.  and in these situations you have a desision to make,either you chose to follow the dress code or you go elsewhere, this of course can been see as eliteism or snobbyness but its up to the establishment what rules they inforce and upto you wether you accept them by using or not using the services offered.

In all i think that the dress code is a good thing and where i understand the argument against it i cannot agree with it. And untill someone can state a argument that puts across a positive result for the sport i will be of this opinion.

2nd rant over!

A translation would be appreciated.

Any requests for Polish

Im staying out of this one

Wise decision, Colin.

The end of what?

Blimey is going to be handbags at dawn at this rate.

we seem to have lost the plot somewhat.

Standard of dress is the topic. I'm going to put my 2 pence in too.

1. No jeans, No Tracksuits (allowances made for kids just starting out as they are our Future.

2. no Football shirts. no t-shirts. (again allowances made)

3. Golf shoes to be worn (allowances made)

4. subject to weather conditions, allownaces made on shorts, hats (BLOODY SOCKS).

COMMON SENSE ATTITUDE TO PREVAIL.

personally i wear nornal golf clothing, its not expensive, TK max, sports soccer, jjb. i even wear the mock collar tops.

but there should be a standard that all adhere too. lets not make the game we love and cherish seem snobbish or should it be loutish.

lets just enjoy it